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Artillery pieces on armoured vehicles?

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  • #61
    I may be wrong, but I think the latest breed of turret-mounted mortars need to be completely buttoned-up when firing. It's something to do with pressure equalisation.
    "The dolphins were monkeys that didn't like the land, walked back to the water, went back from the sand."

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    • #62
      Needless to say they will be a huge step on from the AML60s (Now retired or some were regunned AML20) they will bring us into modern day Mobile Artillery utilising an already excellent platform of which is internationally successful with the proven AMOS system bringing a whole lot Bang For Your Buck to overseas Fire Support Missions/Capabilities and enhancing true support to forward deployed Infantry Elements L.R.Ps And Likewise etc...
      British officer: You're seven minutes late, Mr. Collins.
      Michael Collins: You've kept us waiting 700 years. You can have your seven minutes.

      [As the British flag comes down]

      Michael Collins: So that's what all the bother was about.

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      • #63
        there is an article in an cosantior about turret-mounted mortars. I think its the best option as opposed to the open APC. It would make a lot of infantry units redundant.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by andy
          It would make a lot of infantry units redundant.
          Would you elaborate on that?
          "The dolphins were monkeys that didn't like the land, walked back to the water, went back from the sand."

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          • #65
            Is it in the current An Cosantoir or a previous one??? I have an article that is about 3years old that disscussed the AMOS systems and similiar in An Cosantoir..
            British officer: You're seven minutes late, Mr. Collins.
            Michael Collins: You've kept us waiting 700 years. You can have your seven minutes.

            [As the British flag comes down]

            Michael Collins: So that's what all the bother was about.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by FMolloy
              Would you elaborate on that?
              I mean structures not soliders. Im not 100% on the ins and outs of it but there might have to be a structural change in some units of the DF to acomadate mortar carriers.

              If the DF were to purchase X number of mortar carriers there would be a lot of soliders in support companies without a convential military role and they would have to be re-assigned. Since the job of support companies is to support the front line.

              Thats if the mortar carriers were to replace the 81mm role (and 120mm) which I think they should. The 81mm takes a while to get into action and the problems of ammo supply is a concern. Plus its pretty slow for soliders to carry about.

              With the battle groups and the like a lot more soliders should and probably will be mechnanised. The only draw back is batallions not having their own 81mm mortar fire on foot. Although with the introduction of the 60mm again it kind of solves that problem.

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              • #67
                There would be that much of a difference in structures.

                If AMOS (say based on a MOWAG chassis) replaced the 81mm mortar, AMOS would still be part of mortar platoon.

                The only structures that would change would be the make up and amount of personnel with the mortar platoon. But they would still be a platoon HQ & sections. There would also be MFCs.

                The amount of personnel in each detachment / vehicle would change only slightly as the AMOS normally requires a crew of 3/4, I can't tell you how many are in a normal 81mm mortar crew (operational information).
                Last edited by DeV; 17 January 2006, 18:16.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by DeV
                  I can't tell you how many are in a normal 81mm mortar crew (operational information).
                  but you can guess by looking at some of the pictures on the 62bn's website
                  You're even dumber than I tell people

                  You might have been infected but you never were a bore

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                  • #69
                    I doubt the Army will buy the amount of AMOS Mowag mounted systems it would take to totally overhaul the the Armys current arrangement. If the rumours a re right this will be an artillery affair i.e Armoured Mobile Artillery = AMOS Equiped Mowags i think that any possible purchase will be of small nature being capable of overseas deployment and small training cadre at home or possibly a detachment to each 2-3 vechicle datachmant to each of the regiments. Maybe..

                    Tactical/Training Deployments Could Be
                    Collins 1FAR (3 units)
                    McKee 2FAR (3 units)
                    Mullingar 4FAR (3 units)

                    But for the majority of the year assets *if not on overseas deployment could be based/attached to the Artillery Schoo; for adminstration/logestics purposes as it central location in the country and Training Home Of The Artillery..

                    I think the 81 will still be the main light arty support for the current future for several reasons inculding the MORFIRE system was purchased from the kiwis for this system to engage the enemy with great accuratcy. And is the new sight for the Carl Gustav 84mm Anti-Tank also is it not capable of being used on the 81mm Mortar i taught i remember someone saying that???
                    British officer: You're seven minutes late, Mr. Collins.
                    Michael Collins: You've kept us waiting 700 years. You can have your seven minutes.

                    [As the British flag comes down]

                    Michael Collins: So that's what all the bother was about.

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                    • #70
                      A battlegroup will be a battalion-plus force, the idea is to have one deployed overseas and another in training at home. That won't require widespread mechanisation, the Army will still be maintaining light infantry battalions. There's not a huge amount of difference between the two types of formation anyway.

                      The purchase of mortar carriers wouldn't be a lot of support soldiers without a role, their role would change from dismounted mortar crews to mechanised mortar crews. The carriers don't don't replace the 81mm's, they merely put wheels underneath them.
                      "The dolphins were monkeys that didn't like the land, walked back to the water, went back from the sand."

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                      • #71
                        It wouldn't make sense to spread the carriers out amongst the various FAR's. They should be concentrated in one location for training. The 81's will still be used by the light battalions, there's nothing to say they won't be mounted on the carriers anyway.
                        "The dolphins were monkeys that didn't like the land, walked back to the water, went back from the sand."

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                        • #72
                          I was displaying the same taught since the my firsts posts on idea of fitting AMOS to Mowags. I was saying that would the possible tactical deployment locations that these Mowags could be operated from the different Field Artillery Regiments.

                          I still believe in my original idea of locating the such a unit attached to the Artillery School in the Curragh for Adminstration/Logestical/Training And Operational Reasons... aswell The Curragh Camp which is likely to be home to any future Overseas Rapid Reaction Forces EU or UNSAS missions (Light Infantry Battalions) for periods of time of any other military location in the state and would be another reason why the such Mowags could be located there..
                          British officer: You're seven minutes late, Mr. Collins.
                          Michael Collins: You've kept us waiting 700 years. You can have your seven minutes.

                          [As the British flag comes down]

                          Michael Collins: So that's what all the bother was about.

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                          • #73
                            I suppose their role would change a bit but not a lot . I dont know a lot about battle groups and the like but its usually something like the following, working from top of the battle group to the rear : -

                            forward recce element (eg scorpions)
                            MBT's (missing)
                            APC's or IFV (eg mowags) with the infantry equiped with the Javlin
                            Calavary units (need replacement )
                            All the supply vechiles.
                            Artillery

                            Of course were missing a few bits of the puzzle there... but no matter.

                            The mechnaised mortar vehicles would be in there somewhere, probably after the APC's. Their role would be to support soliders on the front line. When the DF got the Mowags, did nt they move soldiers into a central unit.

                            If I were dealing with a new vehicle and fitting it into a battle group i would make it into a seperate unit and training specific for it. The existing support company would probably just stay the same.

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                            • #74
                              What would be the point in maintaining a light infantry-style support company in a mechanised battalion? The whole idea of a mechanised battalion is that all sub-units can move at the same speed. Keeping the current set-up of mortars & HMG's that need to be dismounted to fire would slow-up the APC-mounted rifle companies and defeat the whole purpose of putting them on wheels in the first place.

                              The British armoured infantry battalion consists of three rifle companies, a HQ company and a maneuver support company. The maneuver support company consists of an AT platoon with 12 milans, a mortar platoon with 6 81mm mortars, a recce platoon with 8 Sabre CVR(T)'s and an assault pioneer platoon.

                              It would make sense for the DF to follow a similar course with the PPF unit and form a support company something like this one.
                              "The dolphins were monkeys that didn't like the land, walked back to the water, went back from the sand."

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                              • #75
                                I dont know what the point is either. Thats what I was on about. A purchase of new mortar carriers might question e structure of the batallions and support company.

                                I dont know a lot about the British armies armoued struture and other european armies but sometimes the brits dont have the best of structures.

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