Works of fiction/Waltering/Dreaming/"We need hovertanks!"

[Goldie fish]

Merged, because we have gone over all this crap before.

[tonyrdf]

Enter the Leopard 2 PSO:



http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/leo2.htm

Is that a GMG on top of a Lepord 2
Drools.............

[Barry]

Is that a GMG on top of a Lepord 2
Drools.............

So it can destroy 2 enemy tanks at once!

[thebig C]

I've seen pictures which would disprove that.

Aren't a lot of militaries cottoning on to the fact that heavy armour with a big eff-off gun is a very handy thing to have for PSO type work?

And you can be sure the other guys have cottoned on to the weapons and tactics Hezbollah used to stop the IDF armour in its tracks.... literally.... the first Merkava was destroyed when it had driven just 10 metres across the border.

Here's a nice video - recognise the song? Shame the other guys won't play by the tankers' rules...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkpO2BliOVg

[California Tanker]

Whiskey in the Jar in Hebrew?!

the first Merkava was destroyed when it had driven just 10 metres across the border.

The only way as an insurgent to reliably kill a big eff-off tank is to use a big eff-off bomb, and have the tank drive right over it. That Merk's route was pretty predictable. In four years, Iraqi insurgents have killed all of two M1 tanks. (And two APCs with bombs big enough that a tank would probably die too). A near miss won't do the job, and sometimes even a massive direct hit won't kill it.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=fadc431531

The reason you're seeing MBTs painted in UN White these days is that they -do- have a massive psychological effect, and they -do- have a use in PSOs. A tank shows up, the fighting stops more often than not. They have an effect on psychology that even medium APCs like Bradleys do not have. The Danes have fitted spotlights to their tanks for the precise reason that their tanks do have a psychological value.

NTM

[cooley]

Interesting Video Cal. Were the guys who filmed that shouting allah something?

[yellowjacket]

The title of this thread offers an interesting and perhaps ironic indication of the mindset of whoever wrote it.

[California Tanker]

Hey, it's a hovertank!



NTM

[THUNDERBOLT]

Interesting Video Cal. Were the guys who filmed that shouting allah something?

they were shouting "god is great"

big bomb just to throw a track

[California Tanker]

I don't think even a track was thrown, by the way it rolled forward. You know there are some torsion bars that are gone, and I'm sure there's a few broken noses and such inside, but nothing permanent from man or machine.

NTM

[turbocalves]

recognise the song?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkpO2BliOVg

tis better than the mettalica version any day...

[Bosco]

Whiskey in the Jar in Hebrew?!

The reason you're seeing MBTs painted in UN White these days is that they -do- have a massive psychological effect, and they -do- have a use in PSOs. A tank shows up, the fighting stops more often than not. They have an effect on psychology that even medium APCs like Bradleys do not have. The Danes have fitted spotlights to their tanks for the precise reason that their tanks do have a psychological value.

NTM

A freind who flies Apaches for the Brits said something very similar he turned up everything stopped and people just went home.

[thebig C]

Apache down...

Maybe it depends on the opposition....

"Another U.S. helicopter lost in Iraq
BASSEM MROUE
Associated Press
Feb. 2, 2007

BAGHDAD, Iraq - A U.S. Army helicopter crashed Friday in a hail of gunfire north of Baghdad, police and witnesses said - the fourth lost in Iraq in the last two weeks. The U.S. command said two crew members were killed, and the top U.S. general conceded that insurgent ground fire has become more effective.

A brief U.S. military statement gave no reason for the crash and did not identify the type of aircraft. A Pentagon official said it was an Apache attack helicopter, which carries two crew members.

The official spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to release the information. Another Apache crashed Sunday during heavy fighting with a Shiite cult near Najaf, also killing two soldiers.

Iraqi police and witnesses said the latest crash occurred about 7:30 a.m. as two Apaches were flying along a well-established air route near Taji, a major U.S. base about 12 miles north of Baghdad.

One helicopter was struck by heavy machine gunfire but continued flying, the witnesses said. The other helicopter banked sharply and flew back toward the source of fire, apparently to attack the target.

But that helicopter was also struck by ground fire, exploded in a ball of fire and crashed, the witnesses said. The other helicopter flew away, they said. The witnesses spoke on condition of anonymity, fearing for their own safety.

The United States has lost more than 50 helicopters in Iraq since May 2003, about half of them to hostile fire.

However, the loss of four helicopters since Jan. 20 has raised new questions about whether Iraqi insurgents are using more sophisticated weapons or whether U.S. tactics need changing.

Three of the latest crashes involved Army helicopters - two Apaches and one Black Hawk. The fourth was an OH-6A observation helicopter operated by the Blackwater USA security firm. All were believed shot down, and 20 Americans, including four civilian, died in the crashes.

In Washington, Gen. Peter Pace, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, acknowledged that insurgent ground fire in Iraq "has been more effective against our helicopters in the last couple of weeks."

But Pace said it was unclear whether "this is some kind of new tactics or techniques that we need to adjust to."

Iraqi insurgents have used heavy machine guns, rocket-propelled grenades and shouldered-fired SA-7 anti-aircraft missiles throughout the Iraq conflict. U.S. officials believe Iran is supplying Shiite militias with new weapons including more powerful roadside bombs, Katysuha rockets and a newer class of rocket-propelled grenades.

Some of those weapons could have found their way into the hands of Sunni insurgents, who operate around Taji.

The U.S. military relies heavily on helicopters to avoid roadside bombs and insurgent ambushes. Any new threat to helicopters would be a serious challenge to the military as it gears up for a major crackdown against Sunni insurgents and Shiite militias in Baghdad.

Helicopters are always vulnerable to ground fire, said Stephen Trimble, Americas bureau chief for Jane's Defence Weekly. "A well-placed bullet can pretty much take down any helicopter," he said.

Protecting helicopters from attack is significantly more complicated than defending against roadside bombs, Trimble said.

"What you would do with a Humvee is up armor it," he said. But helicopters can't support a significant increase in weight. The U.S. military is looking into technology that tracks and fires at rocket-propelled grenades, he said, but its use on helicopters is a long way off.

Apaches carry multiple high-tech defenses, including long-range sensors, radar jammers and an infrared jammer for countering incoming missiles.

However, the Apaches, which were designed to fight the Soviet Union on the plains of central Europe, have proven vulnerable to intense ground fire.

During the 2003 invasion of Iraq, more than 30 Apaches had to break off an attack after suffering heavy damage in fighting with the Iraqi Republican Guard. One helicopter crashed but the two crew members survived....."

[California Tanker]

Maybe it depends on the opposition....

I used the phrase 'more often than not'.

Your Apache example is one incident last month, and references one other AH-64 downing four years ago.

Compare that to how many times an AH-64 shows up and things start getting quieter, either from psychological effect or from shooting?

Even my own, humble experiece from a single year in my single tank resulted in things getting very quiet when my tank showed up a lot more times than M1s have been destroyed. Our local dismounts referred to us as 'woobies' (security blankets). They have a place in the great scheme of things. They only have a small part to play in peacekeeping, but the part they do play they play very well indeed.

NTM

[ZULU]

So buy 10? M1A1's at around $4.5million a pop?

+ all the associated costs of owning Tanks

Bueler? Bueler?

:confused: