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  • Air Ambulances?

    Someone mentioned air ambulances on another thread.
    If (when?) the Dauphins are replaced, would it make sense to convert them to air ambulances?
    The type has been used succesfully in the role in many locations, notably G-HEMS in London.
    Do the aircraft have enough life left in them for the job?




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    With 50,000 men getting killed a week, who's going to miss a pigeon?

    Guns don't kill people, bullets kill people.

  • #2
    I believe the avionics need to be upgraded,other than that,I dont believe helis suffer from airframe time as much as fixed wing.
    The Most popular choice for air ambulance today is actualy the EC 135,one of which was in use in ireland for a while,demonstrating its potential. However this would be a matter for the Health boards,who are currently in a shite state already.

    In the meantime,the Allouette 3 frequently lands at CUH with patients for their excellent head injury specialists.it seems they take out one of the seats in front and everything slots in well.

    Saw a documentary about HEMS on tv before,they do a great job to be sure,but require sponsorship to keep them in the air. Who would be willing to do it here?


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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    • #3
      The Yorkshire Air Ambulance http://www.wymas.co.uk/airambulance/index.htm relies largely on public donations along with an AA sponsorship deal.

      Annual running costs work at around StgĀ£1m, which is hardly a huge amount compare to some other government expenditure I could think of, and there is no doubt this would save lives (always good for votes :D).
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      With 50,000 men getting killed a week, who's going to miss a pigeon?

      Guns don't kill people, bullets kill people.

      Comment


      • #4
        The Garda helis should have been equipped for dual Garda/Air Ambulance duties, as is the case in many UK counties.
        The EC-135 being the most suitable of the two - Instead it is overloaded with "toys for the boys".

        I too wonder would the Dauphins "have enough life in them" for the role ?

        Perhaps some of the multinationals here would consider a sponsorship deal ?
        Would be great PR for them to have their name on the side of a heli or two !

        Silver.
        IRISH AIR CORPS - Serving the Nation.

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        • #5
          The problem with dual police-ems helicopter is the roles often conflict, e.g. at a major incident does the helicopter assist the police with command and control, or start transporting casualties? Both of these are vital roles.

          Plus the Garda helicopter seems to be needed most over urban areas, while the biggest need for a HEMS service is in rural areas, where transport times for casualties by ground are unacceptably long.
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          With 50,000 men getting killed a week, who's going to miss a pigeon?

          Guns don't kill people, bullets kill people.

          Comment


          • #6
            I agree that a dedicated service would be the ideal solution.
            However, dual role helis seem to work fine with many UK Police Constabularies.
            IRISH AIR CORPS - Serving the Nation.

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            • #7
              Hey Silver, Yellow,
              Gotta link for any dual service police/ems air ambulance?
              I'm too lazy to google it myself!!!!!!!
              No-one, I think, is in my tree...

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              • #8
                http://www.wiltshire.police.uk/air_support/index.htm
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                With 50,000 men getting killed a week, who's going to miss a pigeon?

                Guns don't kill people, bullets kill people.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Thanks lad, interesting stuff.
                  No-one, I think, is in my tree...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The Garda helis should have been equipped for dual Garda/Air Ambulance duties, as is the case in many UK counties.
                    The EC-135 being the most suitable of the two - Instead it is overloaded with "toys for the boys".

                    Silver, your quote as above is interesting. perhaps you can enlighten the board as to the "toys" on board.

                    Four years ago, the Kent Air Ambulance Trust in their AS355N visited the west of Ireland on behalf of promotional parties, to display their aircraft. (It since crashed with loss of life). At the meeting were representatives of the Air Corps who took a stand off position in the matter of Medevac.

                    You see, the Air Corps have only ever provided a transit service for patients, from Hospital to Hospital, despite having the aircraft to provide medevac from on scene incidents.

                    As for your comment that the EC 135 being the most suitable of the "Two", the AS 355 series of helicopters are the mnost popular in the World for Medevac / Casevac use in the civil community.

                    Bear also in mind, that British Units are so geographically small, that it is often very convenient for them to make the hop with the patient to the nearest hospital. If the Guards were to provide this service, think of the logistics, ie, fuel, fuel availability, endurance, weather, etc.

                    Regards,

                    Lurk.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I think this would be an ideal role for the Aer Corps. Of course funding would have to be found to purchase/lease the helicopters. The skill and expertise is already present in the PDF, pilots, medics etc. It would be a good place for other emergency service personnel to hone their skills too, eg fire brigades, ambulance services. Would this be a role the Aer Corps would be willing to take on? Surely, anything that gets them real flying hours would be welcome.

                      As a related sidebar, I work with an ex-US Army flight medic. He was stationed in San Antonio in the 70's when the US Army, in co-operation with local authorities initated one of the first "civilian" Airvac services. They utilized lessons and techniques learned in Vietnam. In Texas, distances between hospitals are huge, hence the program was started.
                      No-one, I think, is in my tree...

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                      • #12
                        I think air ambualnce should be left to a civilian agency, it's about time this state modernised its aviation services, a private or semi-state HEMS working directly for the RHA's makes far more practical and long term economic sense than overburdening the AC or GASU fleets.
                        "It is a general popular error to imagine that loudest complainers for the public to be the most anxious for it's welfare" Edmund Burke

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                        • #13
                          I can see that in an ideal world CQ, but it would require that the health boards put in place a whole support structure for theit new "air wing." The PDF already has a whole support structure in place. Granted it may have to be expanded to accomadate the new aircraft that would be needed. But I was thinking of cost savings here.

                          Plus, wouldn't it offer some some real world operations for the Aer Corps. They would right up to speed on the Casevac skills, everyday. And I'm sure their pilots would be glad of the hours.

                          Later.
                          No-one, I think, is in my tree...

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                          • #14
                            True they aren't exactly flying Pilots to death at the moment but for the air corps to run the service won't really do much for their military aspirations in the long run.
                            If a private contractor operated I'd guestimate six light twins from three regional airports I'd say that would be more than adequate.
                            "It is a general popular error to imagine that loudest complainers for the public to be the most anxious for it's welfare" Edmund Burke

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Lurk
                              As for your comment that the EC 135 being the most suitable of the "Two", the AS 355 series of helicopters are the most popular in the World for Medevac / Casevac use in the civil community.
                              Comparing the two by numbers in service isn't fair as the AS355 has been around a lot longer.
                              Increasingly larger helicopters are being chosen so as to offer more scope treating the casualty in flight. The AS355/Bo105 size helicopters offer very little room for casualty treatment.
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                              With 50,000 men getting killed a week, who's going to miss a pigeon?

                              Guns don't kill people, bullets kill people.

                              Comment

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