Air Ambulances?

[Lurk]

Hi all.

I read some excellent comments here, its a pity the authorities with the ability to initiate this service dont do something about it. The Air Corps have one inherent problem with a dedicated service, ie, the Army have first call, as they hold the purse strings. I am sure that with planning and funding, that the Air Corps have a lot to offer. In these modern times, they could even charge the HB's for the service.

Examine the terminology, and then see what the service means. Its my view that,

Air Ambulance is usually point to point, and pre planned.

Medevac is where the patient is moved to a facility from the scene of the incident to a place of treatment, and a medic / doctor is on board.

Casevac is the removal from scene to a place of treatment by a usually basically qualified multi purpose crew. Casevac is not the primary role.

From the above, it can be established what heli is req for each task. So a Dauphan or similar is used for ambulance and sometimes medevac, the smaller aircraft in multi role fits into casevac.

Any opinions?

[yellowjacket]

The definitions depend on who you're talking to. But definitions are normally:

Casualty Evacuation (casevac) from scene to A&E
Medical Evactation (medevac) transfer between hospitals.

A HEMS (Helicopter Emergency Medical Service) in Ireland would be needed for both.

Crew qualifications varies from place to place.
2 paramedics (most of UK)
Flight nurse & paramedic (common in US)
Doctor & paramedic (London HEMS)
Obviously the more qualified crews bring cost implications, but can offer more treatment on-scene and en-route.

An interesting suggestion made by lobby groups for an Irish HEMS system involved an all Island service. This would have implications for Air Corps involvement.

[Lurk]

Yellojacket, the all Ireland service is an excellent idea, but I hope the Air Corps is bigger than the Health Boards in this matter. For example, people in North Monaghan have to travel a great distance for proper facilities or specialist treatment tas do people in Donegal. Why not go to Derry or Armagh? Its a pity we put imaginary barriers in place where lives are concerned. We already send people to UK Hospitals for treatment.

I appreciate your comments about the designations of what is Casevac, Medevac, etc, there are many interpretations.

The UK Police who do Casevac are usually not specifically trained for the task. Other units carry one joint team of police observer, paramedic, and pilot. The air ambulance services carry either two paramedics, and sometimes a doctor from a hospital A&E.

Lurk

[strummer]

After considering this issue for awhile, I think I now agree with CQ (it must be the end of the world or something, eh CQ?!!!!!!!). I think a private contractor would be the way to go. Hand over all flight ops. and maintenance to the contractor, medical control could be held by the Health Board, medical staff could be Health board or contractor. I think this would be the most cost-effective way of implementing such a service.

Not to drif too far off topic, but why was the Air Corps given the flight and maint responsibilities for the GASU? Why not a contractor? Was it a security issue? A financial one? A feel good reason for the AC?

Just wondering.

Later.

[FMolloy]

The Gardai wanted (and probably still want) an English company, staffed by ex-military pilots, to fly the aircraft. The problem is that legislation prohibits government aircraft to be flown by civilians.

[strummer]

But what about that Air/Sea Maritime Rescue helicopter, Sikorsky, I think, that used to/ maybe still does, fly out of Shannon. Big deal made out of its female pilot etc. She was a civilian. Or was the aircraft owned and operated by the contractor, hence it wasn't a govt. aircraft?

[FMolloy]

As far as I know all the coast guard helicopters belong to the company that runs the service (CHC?).

[Silver]

Gentlemen please !

I am the last person who would knock the Air Corps (or GASU) !!!
(Have you noticed my new signature ).

I didn't realise a "passing comment" would have created so much fuss

When I made the comment (re "toys"), it was to show how strongly I believe in the need for an Air Ambulance over the likes of "side-looking infra-red equipment" in our GASU helis.

Silver.


:flagwave:

[pym]

*bump*

I think this warrants further discussion. With the new helicopters being delivered soon-ish, I do not see why at least 2 A3's could be assigned to full time air ambulance operations, at least as an interim solution.

[mugs]

Plus the Garda helicopter seems to be needed most over urban areas, while the biggest need for a HEMS service is in rural areas, where transport times for casualties by ground are unacceptably long.

Just to point out that in a recent documentary series on BBC1 called ''trauma'' they followed the HEMS team in London and they now use an EC135 and have landed it in the middle of a street with 3 storey buildings on both sides so I don't thing landing in a grassy area in a housing estate would be a problem.

[yellowjacket]

I do not see why at least 2 A3's could be assigned to full time air ambulance operations, at least as an interim solution.

How about the fact that for pretty much the first time ever, the A/C currently has helis available for military operations and training. Sending the AIIIs off to do air ambulance would put a sudden stop to that.

A privately operated state funded air ambulance service is currently under development. This is the way it should be.

The AB139s will have a secondary air ambulance role, and understandings are being drawn up between the depts of health and defence to formailse this.

[Boomer]

A privately operated state funded air ambulance service is currently under development. This is the way it should be.

Eh?

First Ive heard of this, got any more details?

[JAG]

Shouldn't the DF have a dedicated 24 hour emergency med-evac heli anyway? It would make a hell of a difference in the event of, for example, a mishap with some artillery. Time from Cemetary Hill to the nearest advanced care by road as compared to by air, anyone?

Dual pupose is bullshit. You try to do two things, you'll end up doing neither of them properly.

[Goldie fish]

Medevac and air ambulance are not the same thing.

[pym]

How about the fact that for pretty much the first time ever, the A/C currently has helis available for military operations and training. Sending the AIIIs off to do air ambulance would put a sudden stop to that.

A privately operated state funded air ambulance service is currently under development. This is the way it should be.

I obviously wasnt aware of the latter point, but I bumped this topic to get the reasons for and against using a3's in this role, so thanks for the show stopping point

I even used the search function, now where's my gold star?