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  • #16
    Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post
    Bertie wanted a BBJ or a 319ACJ before someone convinced him it would be a bad idea, what with the rest of the air corps falling out of the skies.
    What do you mean about the "air corps falling out of the skies"?



    Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post
    If such an aircraft was bought, it would quickly be commandeered for VIP transport,much as The Dauphin, Casa and more recently the EC135 have been in the past.
    It would be intended for VIP transport, but the President isn't exactly hyperactive, and an Airbus wouldn't be much use to Bertie as he travels round the country campaigning, sorry, on urgent Government business. So it should be available for military purposes for a good proportion of the time.

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    • #17
      C-390

      What about the "Embraer C390"

      It is a twin jet 19tonne transport, stillunder development discussions, however I still have to see a Embraer Failure.
      "Why am I using a new putter? Because the last one didn't float too well." -Craig Stadler

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      • #18
        How about a couple of Boeing 757-200's (C-32) for the IAC like what us Kiwi's are now using? Ours are 1992 models that we bought used in early 2003. Incidently one of the aircraft NZ7572 spent 2 weeks in Shannon during June of 2003 on its delivery mission for maintenance which included a test flight (I understand that the RNZAF markings were taped over at the time.)

        They are currently undergoing a modification programme Stateside that will provide an ability to rapidly change the role of the aircraft to any given task, converting from standard passenger configuration to a combination freight/passenger, full freight, Aero Medical Evacuation (AME) and VIP set up.

        The modifications include the installation of an enlarged cargo door, internal access air stairs, internal aircrew access ladder, thrust increase on the RB211-535-E4B engines and upgraded Military Communication, Navigation, and Surveillance/Air Traffic Management (CNS/ATM) capabilities. The aircraft have an 11 pallet / 22500kg payload capacity and a 4000 nm range.

        The total project budget for two 757's with the modification upgrade was NZ$225million or around 110 million in euro's. Which is a modest amount considering the benefits it provides.

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        • #19
          Italian A319

          Another example of an Air Force Airbus A319 (it's even got a tricolour):



          ... a couple more..





          Looks like Chile has taken the Ryanair option:

          Last edited by thebig C; 19 June 2007, 15:50.

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          • #20
            Another possibility for the Strategic Airlift, possibly replace the CASA with the P-X version so as both aircraft have the required commonality, Taken from Flightglobal

            http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...-kawasaki.html

            Japanese manufacturer Kawasaki Heavy Industries has a busy summer ahead of it as it prepares for he first flights of two major new aircraft types.
            With their official roll-outs due next month, minimal publicity has so far surrounded the appearance of the P-X next-generation maritime patrol aircraft and C-X cargo aircraft, which are designed to maximise commonality of structural parts and equipment. First flights are scheduled for late summer.
            The company hopes it will receive the go-ahead from the Japanese government by the end of this year to put the aircraft into production, which would allow deliveries of both types to start in 2011.


            The C-X is a high-wing military transport designed to replace the earlier Kawasaki C-1, which has been in service since 1974.
            The high-wing transport is powered by two CF6-80C2 turbofans, is planned to have a cruise speed of M0.8, a payload of 37.6 tons and a maximum take-off weight of 141.1 tonnes. The Japanese Air Self-Defense Force is believed to want around 40 of the type. Its cargo will be carried in a hold measuring 4m x 4m x 16m.
            Kawasaki is studying a civil variant, which would specialise in oversize cargo. The P-X, which will be powered by four new XF-7 turbofans being developed by Ishikawajima Harima, is planned to replace the country’s Maritime Self-Defence Force’s large fleet of P-3C Orions. Around 70 of the new type is anticipated. Given Japan’s dependence on foreign trade, maritime patrol has always been accorded a high priority and the distances involved in patrolling Pacific sea lanes have resulted in the P-X design being given four engines for safety.
            "Why am I using a new putter? Because the last one didn't float too well." -Craig Stadler

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            • #21
              Chilean Air Force buys Airbus A310s



              Chile is acquiring a pair of Airbus A310-200s for strategic and presidential transport and air-to-air refuelling duties under a $104 million deal with EADS. Chile needs the strategic transports to support its United Nations commitment to maintain a peacekeeping force in Haiti.

              The European aircraft will replace the air force's Boeing 737-500 and the contract with EADS covers the purchase and overhaul of the two A310s, plus the conversion of one of the airliners to multi-role tanker/transport configuration.

              The first is due to be delivered before the end of 2007, and both will be equipped with forward side-cargo doors and auxiliary fuel tanks.

              (10/08/07
              SOURCE:Flight International)

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              • #22
                From Dail Debates:

                Deputy Jimmy Deenihan asked the Minister for Defence if, in view of the expected deployment of Defence Forces personnel to Chad and the distance of this area from seaports, he has considered the procurement of large transport aircraft for the Air Corps to be used to re-supply and support personnel there; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [22103/07]

                Deputy Willie O’Dea: On 25 September 2007, the UN Security Council unanimously adopted Resolution 1778 establishing a multidimensional UN mission in Chad and the Central African Republic that will help strengthen security in the region. Resolution 1778 (2007) establishes the mission, to be known as MINURCAT, for a period of one year, with a mandate focusing on the security and protection of civilians, particularly refugees, internally displaced persons, IDPs, and civilians in danger, and on human rights and the rule of law in eastern Chad and north-eastern Central African Republic.

                Since 2004, eastern Chad has hosted some 240,000 Sudanese refugees in 12 camps who have fled the fighting in Darfur. In addition, Chad is facing a surge in the number of IDPs, now totalling more than 170,000. MINURCAT will have three components: a UN multidimensional presence, composed of UN police, rule of law, human rights and other civilian officers; a special Chadian police or gendarmes unit, some 850 strong, dedicated exclusively to maintaining law and order in refugee camps, sites with concentrations of IDPs and key towns, and assisting in securing humanitarian activities in eastern Chad; and an EU military deployment, under Chapter VII.

                The Government at its meeting on Tuesday approved the nomination of an Irish officer to the position of operation commander for the proposed EU military operation in the Republic of Chad and the Central African Republic. The European Council will shortly decide on this appointment as part of the joint action to launch the ESDP mission.

                A fact-finding mission is to visit the region and report back on mission requirements. The Government will take a final decision on the extent of the Defence Forces’ participation in this mission once this report is to hand. Any decision to participate will be subject to the approval of Dáil Éireann in accordance with the Defence Acts.

                As part of the background planning for potential participation in the EU mission in Chad the Defence Forces are examining a range of strategic lift options for deployment of Defence Forces personnel and their sustainment in this region. The Defence Forces have stand-by arrangements in place in this regard, mainly involving commercial suppliers. Discussions are ongoing with our EU partners. There are no plans to acquire large long-range transport aircraft for the Defence Forces.
                http://debates.oireachtas.ie/DDebate...ode=H9&Page=10


                Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
                  Hi all
                  This idea is not new in Irish skies.Aer Lingus had a fleet of "Combi" 737s that flew pax during the day and cargo at night. A good crew could change the aircraft over in two hours,as the seats came out on seperate panels and the ULD boxes could go straight in.
                  Just goes to show that there is nothing new under the sun.
                  regards
                  GttC
                  Lufthansa have also been doing this for many years.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    The Dail debates on Thursday 4th October 2007 had a question and answer on this point in the oral questions

                    The basic answer seems to be No Chance

                    Details as follows [Question 3]

                    Defence Forces Equipment.
                    3. Deputy Jimmy Deenihan asked the Minister for Defence if, in view of the expected deployment of Defence Forces personnel to Chad and the distance of this area from seaports, he has considered the procurement of large transport aircraft for the Air Corps to be used to re-supply and support personnel there; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [22103/07]

                    Deputy Willie O’Dea: On 25 September 2007, the UN Security Council unanimously adopted Resolution 1778 establishing a multidimensional UN mission in Chad and the Central African Republic that will help strengthen security in the region. Resolution 1778 (2007) establishes the mission, to be known as MINURCAT, for a period of one year, with a mandate focusing on the security and protection of civilians, particularly refugees, internally displaced persons, IDPs, and civilians in danger, and on human rights and the rule of law in eastern Chad and north-eastern Central African Republic.
                    Since 2004, eastern Chad has hosted some 240,000 Sudanese refugees in 12 camps who have fled the fighting in Darfur. In addition, Chad is facing a surge in the number of IDPs, now totalling more than 170,000. MINURCAT will have three components: a UN multidimensional presence, composed of UN police, rule of law, human rights and other civilian officers; a special Chadian police or gendarmes unit, some 850 strong, dedicated exclusively to maintaining law and order in refugee camps, sites with concentrations of IDPs and key towns, and assisting in securing humanitarian activities in eastern Chad; and an EU military deployment, under Chapter VII.
                    The Government at its meeting on Tuesday approved the nomination of an Irish officer to the position of operation commander for the proposed EU military operation in the Republic of Chad and the Central African Republic. The European Council will shortly decide on this appointment as part of the joint action to launch the ESDP mission.
                    A fact-finding mission is to visit the region and report back on mission requirements. The Government will take a final decision on the extent of the Defence Forces’ participation in this mission once this report is to hand. Any decision to participate will be subject to the approval of Dáil Éireann in accordance with the Defence Acts.
                    As part of the background planning for potential participation in the EU mission in Chad the Defence Forces are examining a range of strategic lift options for deployment of Defence Forces personnel and their sustainment in this region. The Defence Forces have stand-by arrangements in place in this regard, mainly involving commercial suppliers. Discussions are ongoing with our EU partners. There are no plans to acquire large long-range transport aircraft for the Defence Forces.

                    Deputy Jimmy Deenihan: The camp in Chad will be approximately 1,500 kilometres inland and we have no air carrying capacity to support our own mission there. Will the Minister consider procuring a special airforce transport plane with a carrying capacity of approximately 50 to give the capability to the Air Corps to support that mission? We rely on others to provide back-up, such as the medical back-up service and to transport our troops in and out of their locations usually for four month stretches. In between if emergencies arise we must rely on others and their availability to service the Irish mission. There is a case for the Air Corps to procure such a transport plane with capacity for at least 50 which could also carry goods and supplies.
                    Deputy Willie O’Dea: Deputy Deenihan is right about the isolation of this mission. I understand the terrain is barren and that the deployment and sustainment of the troops must be done mainly by air. That will involve putting in airstrips and so on, which we are discussing with the French, pending the final decision on the mission.
                    Without wishing to be flippant, I would procure anything if the Department of Finance gave me the money to do it. We work within our budget. The military advise me that our need for this sort of facility is so rare that it does not justify the cost. We have arrangements in place with commercial suppliers. Sometimes we link up with other people on the mission, in this case, the French, who provide the appropriate air transport. In the context of expenditure on defence and our weapon modernisation programme I am advised that a purchase of this sort, which would be expensive and difficult to maintain, would not be used enough to be cost-efficient.

                    Deputy Jimmy Deenihan: It could also be used for humanitarian purposes, and rapid reaction. It would overcome the problem to which Deputy O’Shea referred of transporting the whole Cabinet to Paris when necessary.
                    In advance of the next White Paper will the Minister consider the possibility of acquiring such an aircraft to enable the Air Corps to provide this service, whether for a mission abroad, for humanitarian reasons or rapid reaction missions?

                    Deputy Willie O’Dea: The Army has participated in humanitarian missions and has arrived at the destinations quite effectively. I will consider the Deputy’s comments. A new White Paper is to be prepared which will cover the period after 2010. The first White Paper runs up to 2009-10. This will cover better equipment, more modernisation and this aircraft may well be included.

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                    • #25
                      See post #1.

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                      • #26
                        Finland has become the latest country to decide to join the European Strategic Airlift Capability project, which involves the joint purcahse by 15 countries of three C-17A aircraft.

                        Seems the sensible option - any chance of Ireland joining?

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          12 European nations have declared their intent to pool their airlift resources in the future. Under the auspices of the European Defence Agency, Belgium, the Czech Republic, France, Germany, Greece, Italy, Luxembourg, The Netherlands, Romanaia, Slovakia and Spain will sign a formal letter of agreement later this year. The program is mainly focused on the A400M, but will also include other types. IOC planned for 2014, and full operational capability by 2017.

                          The NATO contract for An-124 aircraft from Volga-Dnepr and Antonov Airlines has been extended for another two yeas.

                          NATO has also formally agreed to buy two C-17A airlifters on behalf of the SALIS nations. A third will be provided by the US.The first aircraft will arrive this spring with the other two arriving in the summer.

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