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Air corps FAC's?

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  • #31
    Originally posted by FACer View Post
    This will most probably mean rather than the pilot recieving all the info up front in his 9 line he will have to drag the relevent info from the Ground c/s. Believe me is really easy to get the info wrong even as a trained FAC. The last thing the pilot wants to do is drop on friendlies. In ECAS he will not drop till he is sure his first action will most probably be a show of force to try to get the enemy to withdraw.
    Have you done your course?

    From what I saw it is that simple! We all did basic CCA training on calling in Heli/Air, was a very simple process. Ok its not the full FAC course but it still left you more than capable of calling in a mission. From talking to the guys just back from afghan they were saying it was normal enough for troops to be calling in strikes as there is only so many FAC/MFC's
    Faugh A Ballagh

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Turncoat View Post
      Have you done your course?

      From what I saw it is that simple! We all did basic CCA training on calling in Heli/Air, was a very simple process. Ok its not the full FAC course but it still left you more than capable of calling in a mission. From talking to the guys just back from afghan they were saying it was normal enough for troops to be calling in strikes as there is only so many FAC/MFC's
      Yes I have done the course. Perhaps your FAC was so good he made it look easy?!

      What you did would have been some sort of prep on Emergency Close Air Support (ECAS) which by definition is only done in.........yep an emergency.
      I don't doubt that guys in afghan have done ECAS but for the reasons stated above its not as easy as just calling in air.
      Apache is slightly different as it doesn't need "controlling" and as such is more free to select it's own targets and engage them. It also isn't tipping in as 480knots if low level or as in theatre at 15,000Ft AGL Both of which make it hard to identify targets. Also the ordanance carried on a Fast Jet is pretty awsome. Do you have any idea of the effects of a 1,000lb bomb or the "danger close" distance?

      Yup there are only so many FAC's in theatre and ideally you should have one there to call in CAS. If there isn't? Well then thats what ECAS is for. If you in the poo needs must.
      Not saying it can't or isn't done in an emergency but a Pilot will react differently to ECAS than CAS.

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      • #33
        Hi there
        I was watching a programme on Discovery or somesuch about an American unit that required danger-close air support, from two F15s.The Eagles started at about 15,000 ft and had a great deal of trouble, despite superb clear skies, in isolating the ground fight from the terrain.Eventually, it took a combination of smoke signals and several low runs, well within small-arms range, for the Eagles to positively identify the Taliban's central position.Once the Taliban saw the aircraft, they increased the intensity of their attack upon the Americans and tried to get close enough to the Americans to nullify the jets' coverage.It took a couple of large bombs, dropped at what could be described as danger-danger close, and a couple of gun runs to kill some of the Taliban and take the heat off the Americans.The fact that the Taliban fire kept their heads down meant that the Americans found it very difficult to clearly identify their surrounds to the pilots and made their job very difficult.
        regards
        GttC

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        • #34
          Originally posted by FACer View Post
          Yes I have done the course. Perhaps your FAC was so good he made it look easy?!
          Yes he was. It was the RA chap that actually wrote the UK doctrine in the first place!

          Originally posted by FACer View Post
          What you did would have been some sort of prep on Emergency Close Air Support (ECAS) which by definition is only done in.........yep an emergency.
          Well yes thats the whole point, it was an emergency! Apparently 2 years ago they were having to call in american fast air as the Air corps Apache crews wouldnt fly as it was "too dangerous".(Though on the plus side this meant less deconflicting) Hence why we were doing CCA and CAS stuff in case something similar happened again. (Though i didnt deploy so it wasnt really relevant at all for me).
          Faugh A Ballagh

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Turncoat View Post
            Yes he was. It was the RA chap that actually wrote the UK doctrine in the first place!



            Well yes thats the whole point, it was an emergency! Apparently 2 years ago they were having to call in american fast air as the Air corps Apache crews wouldnt fly as it was "too dangerous".(Though on the plus side this meant less deconflicting) Hence why we were doing CCA and CAS stuff in case something similar happened again. (Though i didnt deploy so it wasnt really relevant at all for me).
            We are in agreement then on ECAS!

            My point is for CAS to be its most effective and in all but emergency cases there is a need for a FAC trained person on the ground. You cannot get the same efficency from a non FAC trained pax with a crib sheet. Therefore the need today for FAC trained pers is greater than ever before.

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