Helicopters for overseas. . . .yeah right!!!

[GoneToTheCanner]

You flew in the most common fit which was seating for five, driver included, as it was the easiest way to get men and kit on at the same time.When seven sat in, it was like a builder's Transit.
regards
GttC

[turbocalves]

i was only in an AIII once,

the flight lasted maybe 5min (coolmooney-cemetry hill) so i didnt have time to look around, we could only get three in (plus pilot+crewman) which i thought was a bit shit, but i wont knock it, has definateley earned it spurs!

[GoneToTheCanner]

Turbo, the A.III could be fitted with six seats, in addition to the pilot's.Now, they weren't up to much and the crewmen often sat on the floor with a harness attached to a tie-down ring.........I'm quite sure the manufacturers of the Mi-8 could come up with a forward-facing seat arrangement for their aircraft, regardless of what standard they are certified to.I think somebody is pissed off that a European company didn't get the contract and is making waves at EU level.
regards
GttC

[Fireplace]

One of the offending whirlybirds.

[paul g]

According to Jane's, the Canadians have leased MI-8s from a Toronto(?) based company, the roles will include troop transport but will not include ground attack. They will be flown by civilian pilots (experienced former military). So it seems it is possible to be able to lease such helicopters for troop transport.

After I posted this I saw this on Alert5 http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNew...ub=CTVNewsAt11

IAS

I was under the impression that the Hips the canadians leased were primarily used for moving cargo and re-supply for all the NATO countries in the joint helicopter pool, the idea being that the British Chinooks could then be priotorised for troop transport.

[DeV]

The leased aircraft would be on subject to civvy regulations as they are on the civil register, military aircraft are on the military register (I presume they have different regulations?)

[Docman]

My understanding is that under EU rules, in order to hire a chopper to carry people, they have to have front/rear-facing seats. But due to the design of the cabin and door of the Mi-8/17, the most militarily capable layout involves sideways-facing seats. So they must specifically hire a less-capable helicopter for the job.
This is madness.

Not madness when you realise that the rules apply to Civilian aircraft and minimum standards for passengers - Kind of like preventing Ryanair from making us all sit on our carry on luggage every time we want to fly.

However, when they were doing up the rules, they never expected that a country would actually try to use civilian aircraft for moving troops in a combat zone..... that is why every military has their own helicopters. The rules don't apply to them because who would be stupid enough to use civvie helos to move troops where they could possibly be shot at?

[ias]

Sorry CT, my comment, although it came immediately after yours, was meant as a general comment.

IAS

[Bagger63]

Aw 139

the Air corps' AW-139 has 3 side facing seats on either side and 3 forward facing-(middle seat is for Crew Member). i cant understand what the big problem is. if you crash you probably wont survive even if the seats are hanging upside down from the roof.

[turbocalves]

What seats???

i meant seat (singular) it had that gammy folding bench aparatus, that liked to think it was a seat..... (though i believe it sat two....)

[California Tanker]

Actually come to think of it ive not been in a military helicopter with forward facing seats!

UH-60 Black Hawk. (Sideseats are for crew, not passengers!)


UH-1 Iroquois as well, methinks. Then again, those are helicopters with very well designed doors providing a fair bit of space to move around.

According to Jane's, the Canadians have leased MI-8s from a Toronto(?) based company, the roles will include troop transport but will not include ground attack. They will be flown by civilian pilots (experienced former military). So it seems it is possible to be able to lease such helicopters for troop transport.

You miss my point/question.

My understanding is that under EU rules, in order to hire a chopper to carry people, they have to have front/rear-facing seats. But due to the design of the cabin and door of the Mi-8/17, the most militarily capable layout involves sideways-facing seats. So they must specifically hire a less-capable helicopter for the job.
This is madness.

NTM

[GoneToTheCanner]

Let me say it again.The Mi-8, like all Russian aircraft, is certified as both a civil and military helicopter.If the seats don't suit a particular EU requirement, then change them round.It's not hard to do.Just tell the people who are supplying them to fit forward or backward facing seats and they'll do it.They'll fit them upside-down or with yellow spots, if you like.Just don't deny the troops usable aircraft because of a bureaucratic hitch.Failing that, hire helicopters from the oil-rig companies as they have a plentiful supply of them (Super Pumas/S61/Bell 212) with fwd/aft facing seats.
regards
GttC

[clean it again]

seats, will not help you when you hit the ground at speed

folks this PC going over the top again

[hptmurphy]

Well the crew had to sit somewhere!

[Turkey]

alouettes had foward facing seat...

What seats???