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  • #31
    Paul, the jag is younger then me, the concept,at least, is 2 years older then you, but and this is the strange bit, as far as I can make out, the Indian order is a new batch.:confused:
    "We will hold out until our last bullet is spent. Could do with some whiskey"
    Radio transmission, siege of Jadotville DR Congo. September 1961.
    Illegitimi non carborundum

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    • #32
      Turkey

      They're made in India, the air force with the world's worst safety record . And as you admit the Jaguar concept dates to 1967, when some people on the board's parents probably weren't born. Its a ground attack aircraft, not a true interceptor. Excellent aircraft in its day, proved itself after 1990, would have been great if ireland had acquired them in the 1980, but now?

      Still talking aboutr age, admit that I was born on a truely historic day in the history of manned flight. Can an aviation buff like yourself guess? Cause there is as much chance of the air corps emulating that feat as there is of us getting jets.
      Last edited by paul g; 1 September 2003, 20:47.

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      • #33
        Em hang on, I neither started nor championed this topic thank you very much and since it is all long term speculation I think anything that will fly in htis decade is a contender.
        "It is a general popular error to imagine that loudest complainers for the public to be the most anxious for it's welfare" Edmund Burke

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        • #34
          Paul, even you cannot claim to have made 'one small step for man....' ect! on that day, I was up late, or early:D watching it in Rathfarnham,
          Sorry, got your Birthday wrong, t'was 1965 the Jag got begun, as a trainer, belive it or belive it not, anyway, t'is an intresting comment, about 10 years ago around the time that letter appeared in the papers where some wally was prattin about some farce arguement for the Air Corps to buy Mig 23's[a class1 non-starter if ever there was one], some know-all, ie. know nuttin, :D stated that because of the Air Corps treatment by the government, when NCC 1701 left space dock there would be no Irish people onboard, [can't remember the source,-would probally shoot myself if I could- but thought it was funny at the time:D ]
          If you can understand that one ,do not admit it!
          Anyway, I only brought up Jags to add to the debate, have to remind all again, as I frequently have to remind myself, that what we talk about here has little, if any, bearing on reality.[pub-with-no-beer]
          While I suspect, fear-even, that Ireland will get jets in the future, they will probally be the most unsuitable, unsafe, unusable, airframes available, as were the Fougas.
          The debate will continue, unpalatable or not because this is what people want to talk about, there is no cure for it, except possably the purchase of jets.
          After 39 years of research, reading, thinking, spotting, flyin,gettin grounded,having my dodgey heart broken, I still belive the people of this state are entitled to a defence force,encorporating the best money can buy, but also that applies to infrastructure, health-care, education, and the result in thease areas is still of a similiar nature======not bl**dy good enough!!!
          Sorry if this wanders a bit, had an unbeliveable rough last couple of days :( :( :(
          "We will hold out until our last bullet is spent. Could do with some whiskey"
          Radio transmission, siege of Jadotville DR Congo. September 1961.
          Illegitimi non carborundum

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          • #35
            Turkey,
            If you're still around Rathfarnham, perhaps I'll see you in the Orchard or the Morgue for a drink when I'm in Dublin someday? My parents live in Templeogue

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            • #36
              Funnily enough I've been a frequent enough visitor to both those pubs in my drinking days, live nowhere near rathfarnham though.
              Still stop in the Morgue occasionally
              "It is a general popular error to imagine that loudest complainers for the public to be the most anxious for it's welfare" Edmund Burke

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              • #37
                Cost of Upgrading First Generation F-16s

                It seems to work out at about 21.76M USD per aircraft.

                Jordan - F-16A Mid-Life Upgrade Kits

                (Source: US Defense Security Cooperation Agency; issued Sept. 3 web posted Sept. 4, 2003)

                On 3 September 2003, the Defense Security Cooperation Agency notified Congress of a possible Foreign Military Sale to Jordan of F-16A Mid-Life Upgrade kits as well as associated equipment and services. The total value, if all options are exercised, could be as high as $370 million.

                The Government of Jordan has requested a possible sale of 17 F-16A Mid-Life Upgrade kits, 12 F100 engine PW-220E modification kits, 17 Falcon UP and Falcon STAR F-16A/B structural upgrade kits, spares, program management, publications and technical documentation, support equipment/services, and U.S. Government and contractor technical and logistics personnel services, and other related requirements to ensure full program supportability. The estimated cost is $370 million.

                The proposed sale will enhance the foreign policy and national security objectives of the United States by improving the security of a key regional partner who has proven to be a vital force for political stability and peace in the Middle East.

                The modifications and upgrades in this proposed sale will permit Jordan’s new F-16 squadron to operate safely, and provide a core of improved aircraft capable of defending Jordan for many years. Jordan can easily absorb and use these aircraft within its existing structure. Jordan currently flies and supports up to 16 similar F-16 aircraft.

                The proposed sale of this equipment and support will not affect the basic military balance in the region. The principal contractors will be Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Company of Fort Worth, Texas and Pratt and Whitney Aviation of East Hartford, Connecticut. There are no offset agreements proposed in connection with this potential sale.

                Implementation of this proposed sale will require the assignment U.S. Government and contractor representatives. Details and the extent of this requirement will be negotiated with the customer.

                There will be no adverse impact on U.S. defense readiness as a result of this proposed sale.

                This notice of a potential sale is required by law; it does not mean that the sale has been concluded.

                -ends-

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                • #38
                  Courtesy of Aidan: http://www.flug-revue.rotor.com/FRhe...10/FR0310c.htm
                  "It is a general popular error to imagine that loudest complainers for the public to be the most anxious for it's welfare" Edmund Burke

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                  • #39
                    Go away for two weeks holiday, ignore the internet, come back to find that we're still talking about fighters, and C-Q has been promoted to Aidan Dogsbody.

                    its intresting to note that ireland is the only EU-RRF member state that doesn't have an airlift capability of any description, any body know what is happening on that front, after from the demonstration of the C-27J back at the beginning of the year.

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                    • #40
                      The only new purchase the AC is due to make is a single Wright model A for E20,000 in order to take part in a centenary flypast.
                      I don't like the way I'm getting tarred with the mustgetfighters brush here, I merely went back to the thread to post a relevant link in order to make some of the issues clearer.
                      The techies over at franks board seem to be in collective morale nosedive, on the other hand there has been talk of the Casa's losing at least part of their operational role, so theres two small transports there.
                      "It is a general popular error to imagine that loudest complainers for the public to be the most anxious for it's welfare" Edmund Burke

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                      • #41
                        29-09-03
                        just to throw a cat amongst pigeons....
                        I did hear recently that the shagpile we call a Government had an oppurtunity to get their hands on some Hawks. This, apparently, was some years ago and I think the country that was offering them was Germany, who were upgrading to something else.

                        The cost was almost next to nothing and the Boyos said no.
                        Afterall, we had Fouga Magisters.
                        Riiigghhttttttt..........
                        And didn't we recently buy six (8?) turbo-props?
                        And just for the record, I think Hawks would be much more viable than F-16's. More affordable too.

                        But we are talking of a government that went from 5 billion in surplus to 2 billion in debt in the space of 1 year.
                        I ask : how?
                        And, why is nobody else asking how? ( that's the money that could have bought our Air Force some decent aircraft.)
                        Liam
                        yeehah1@eircom.net

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                        • #42
                          It was Alpha Jets and they would've been a good purchase at the time but LIFTs (Lead in fighter trainers) are not fighters and therefore can't really be discussed in the same breath as F-16s, if you read back over this and the umpteen other threads dealing with the same topic, (try light fighters in site search,) you can get up to date on all the circles we've run on this topic already.
                          "It is a general popular error to imagine that loudest complainers for the public to be the most anxious for it's welfare" Edmund Burke

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                          • #43
                            true, true, but you gotta start somewhere.
                            and anyway, i find the idea of the Air Corps flying F-16's a little funny, if not totally hilarious. Imagine, they take off from Baldonnel, hit the afterburner and twenty seconds later they're over Manchester asking, "What the f**k....?"

                            Lets whisper Hawks. Maybe we'll get Vampires.
                            Let's all revise the motto of the Canadian Air Force:
                            Yesterdays technology...today!![

                            Ah well...
                            liam

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Come-quickly
                              if you read back over this and the umpteen other threads dealing with the same topic, (try light fighters in site search,) you can get up to date on all the circles we've run on this topic already.
                              And here we are again, back to square one....
                              Meh.

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                              • #45
                                There goes the doomsday siren....sounds like trouble
                                "It is a general popular error to imagine that loudest complainers for the public to be the most anxious for it's welfare" Edmund Burke

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