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What are Air Corps Aircraft used for on day to day basis?

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  • What are Air Corps Aircraft used for on day to day basis?

    What are Aer Chór na hÉireann Aircraft used for on day to day basis?
    I know the CASA used for Maritime Patrol, The Government jets are self explanetary, But what are the rest used For - the norm not the exception
    Forgive me if the question seems ignorant, and I have used the search function
    Last edited by apc; 5 December 2009, 16:53.

  • #2
    Training
    Troop Transport
    Parachuting
    Target Towing
    ATCP
    Support to army

    Comment


    • #3
      Ok, I think i may have worded my initial question badly.
      As I walked home today An Aer corps AW 139 was circling above at about 150m. It circled 6 or 7 times and then headed off in a easterly direction, it circled a residential area. I asked myself what was it up to? Then I wondered what Air Corp aircraft were used for on a daily basis that justified their existance in the Aer Corps.
      Maritime patrol is vital to protect our natural resource and to prevent illegal activities and does so on an almost daily basis. Ministerial Transport is a dedicated role. I couldnt think of any regular roles for the rest of the aircraft.:redface:

      Dev said
      Training
      Troop Transport
      Parachuting
      Target Towing
      ATCP
      Support to army
      Are these role vital or necessary to any great extent on a day to day basis

      Comment


      • #4
        You can find the offical list here:
        http://www.military.ie/aircorps/roles/index.htm

        According to the 2007 DF Annual Report the AC spent their time doing the following (bear in mind they were using some aircraft that have now been replaced). This is just to give you an idea:

        Air Ambulance - 97 missions - 267 hours

        MATS (not including helicopters) - 192 missions - 544 hours

        Maritime Patrol / Coastal patrol / support to Customs (not just CASA also helicopters & Cessnas) - 235 missions - 1425 hours

        GASU (Garda aircraft) - 1990 missions - 1775 hours

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        • #5
          The 2007 Annual Report shows that the Air Corps flew a total of 11,700 hours, or an average of 225 hours per week. (Approx. 850 people in the Air Corps - how many pilots are there? Approx. 30 aircraft?)

          40% of those hours were attributed to training, and another 4% to service and maintenance. After that it was

          Army & Navy Support 15%
          ATCP 15%
          Maritime Patrol 12%
          MATS/VIP 9%
          Civil Assistance & PR 3%
          Air Ambulance 2%

          (see December 2008 issue of 'Flying in Ireland' for more details)

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          • #6
            Ok how many of those activities are actually of importance. Beyond maritime ,the air ambulance seems to be the only one. Of the rest what actual use are they offering.

            My question is, Do we have an aer corps that is of actual use to the state or is it just another institution.
            We bought 9 PC9s for which I really cant see a roll. They are next to useless in defence, the aer corps dont deploy overseas so we cant use them there, why do we have them?
            Should we look at the aer corps and re-define its role?:confused:
            Last edited by apc; 24 August 2009, 00:01.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by apc View Post
              We bought 9 PC9s for which I really cant see a roll.
              Actually they do roll them from time to time, sometimes even a loop or a spin...but there are 8 not 9.

              I actually do agree with most of what you are saying.

              However, I will point out some other roles regularly undertaken by the air corps that are very useful and important.

              ATCP: Top cover on Cash Escorts

              SAR: Secondary to Maritime partol with the CASA's. Another Top Cover type role in supporting he Coast Guard helis.

              Army Support: An increasingly important role in preparing Irish soldiers for overseas deployments where helicopter transport will be undertaken in theatre using other nation's or contracted helicopters.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by apc View Post
                Should we look at the aer corps and re-define its role?:confused:
                I always thought we should get rid of all fixed wing aircraft in the AC and simply use Helicopters

                this would mean that the long range MATS capability is gone (huraah)

                if all the AC's budget was concentrated on Helis it would simplfy a lot-

                I know the disadvantages of this si we would have to farm out the initial wings course
                but that happened before with the white Marcetti's
                and we would lose the CASA element as well.
                Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
                Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
                The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
                The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
                The best lack all conviction, while the worst
                Are full of passionate intensity.

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                • #9
                  The CASA is a maritime aircraft, and consequently, it makes sense that it should be operated from the Naval Service. Indeed, it should also be operating from an airport at least close to it's AO, such as Cork, Shannon, or even Farranfore.

                  I can see there would be difficulties though, as none of the airfields I mention close on Saturdays and Sundays...


                  Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by easyrider View Post
                    The 2007 Annual Report shows that the Air Corps flew a total of 11,700 hours, or an average of 225 hours per week. (Approx. 850 people in the Air Corps - how many pilots are there? Approx. 30 aircraft?)

                    40% of those hours were attributed to training, and another 4% to service and maintenance. After that it was

                    Army & Navy Support 15%
                    ATCP 15%
                    Maritime Patrol 12%
                    MATS/VIP 9%
                    Civil Assistance & PR 3%
                    Air Ambulance 2%

                    (see December 2008 issue of 'Flying in Ireland' for more details)
                    Originally posted by apc View Post
                    Ok how many of those activities are actually of importance. Beyond maritime ,the air ambulance seems to be the only one. Of the rest what actual use are they offering.
                    So ATCP isn't important?

                    The majority of time on army support is for training troops how to use helicopters & possibly ground attack aircraft. That isn't important?

                    We bought 9 PC9s for which I really cant see a roll. They are next to useless in defence, the aer corps dont deploy overseas so we cant use them there, why do we have them?
                    There role is a trainer (they replaced 2 different types of aircraft with a more capable aircraft). They train the pilots to fly, provide experience for troops with operating with aircraft and ground-attack capability.

                    Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post
                    The CASA is a maritime aircraft, and consequently, it makes sense that it should be operated from the Naval Service.
                    Would it make sense as there would then need to be an NS crash rescue service, NS ATC personnel, an NS airbase (or use a civilian airport), etc etc.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hi there
                      The Air Corps' roles are defined partly by the nature of the Service; ie, aeroplanes need pilots who need initial and recurrent training and need to be serviced and tested and so on, so that's a self-generating exercise in itself.(quite why the air corps needs to consume 4% of it's annual hours on maintenance-related flights escapes me.I suspect that they are lumping in ferry flight hours to Spain and the USA, which is not quite the same thing). The fact that the AC are the air arm of the DF generates it's own specifically military tasks, such as troop lift and carriage of stores and weapons, anti-aircraft target towing, parachuting, ARW support, cash escort, limited SAR, NS support, air-to-ground training.Any other task, such as Garda support, island relief, MATS, air display flying,etc, which are of a non-military nature are generated by the fact that they are at the State's beck and call, rather than be at the whim of civil operators. Personally, I have always believed that the Gardai should carry out their own aviation.It is also well past time for the AC to operate from the other airports in the State.
                      regards
                      GttC

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by DeV View Post



                        Would it make sense as there would then need to be an NS crash rescue service, NS ATC personnel, an NS airbase (or use a civilian airport), etc etc.
                        The NS already train in firefighting. But as you would be operating from a civilian airfield,(as I suggested in the rest of my post which you did not quote)
                        which already has the assets you speak of, this would not be an issue. As for line maintenance, those AC people currently engaged in maintenance of the CASA either transfer to NS, (and operate NS working hours) or the NS DE suitably qualified people.


                        Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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                        • #13
                          Given that the still can't move AC personnel from Gormanston to Baldonnel due to think that the could transfer them to the NS?

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                          • #14
                            The AC personnel left in Gormo opted to stay there rather than uproot their families. I'm told it's as few as five heads. Why not move the NS to other ports on the island?
                            regards
                            GttC

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                            • #15
                              Because the infastructure already exists in haulbowline, and it is one of the Closest deepwater ports to the Main AO.


                              Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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