What are Air Corps Aircraft used for on day to day basis?

[apc]

What are Aer Chór na hÉireann Aircraft used for on day to day basis?
I know the CASA used for Maritime Patrol, The Government jets are self explanetary, But what are the rest used For - the norm not the exception
Forgive me if the question seems ignorant, and I have used the search function

[DeV]

Training
Troop Transport
Parachuting
Target Towing
ATCP
Support to army

[apc]

Ok, I think i may have worded my initial question badly.
As I walked home today An Aer corps AW 139 was circling above at about 150m. It circled 6 or 7 times and then headed off in a easterly direction, it circled a residential area. I asked myself what was it up to? Then I wondered what Air Corp aircraft were used for on a daily basis that justified their existance in the Aer Corps.
Maritime patrol is vital to protect our natural resource and to prevent illegal activities and does so on an almost daily basis. Ministerial Transport is a dedicated role. I couldnt think of any regular roles for the rest of the aircraft.:redface:

Dev said

Training
Troop Transport
Parachuting
Target Towing
ATCP
Support to army

Are these role vital or necessary to any great extent on a day to day basis

[DeV]

You can find the offical list here:
http://www.military.ie/aircorps/roles/index.htm

According to the 2007 DF Annual Report the AC spent their time doing the following (bear in mind they were using some aircraft that have now been replaced). This is just to give you an idea:

Air Ambulance - 97 missions - 267 hours

MATS (not including helicopters) - 192 missions - 544 hours

Maritime Patrol / Coastal patrol / support to Customs (not just CASA also helicopters & Cessnas) - 235 missions - 1425 hours

GASU (Garda aircraft) - 1990 missions - 1775 hours

[easyrider]

The 2007 Annual Report shows that the Air Corps flew a total of 11,700 hours, or an average of 225 hours per week. (Approx. 850 people in the Air Corps - how many pilots are there? Approx. 30 aircraft?)

40% of those hours were attributed to training, and another 4% to service and maintenance. After that it was

Army & Navy Support 15%
ATCP 15%
Maritime Patrol 12%
MATS/VIP 9%
Civil Assistance & PR 3%
Air Ambulance 2%

(see December 2008 issue of 'Flying in Ireland' for more details)

[apc]

Ok how many of those activities are actually of importance. Beyond maritime ,the air ambulance seems to be the only one. Of the rest what actual use are they offering.

My question is, Do we have an aer corps that is of actual use to the state or is it just another institution.
We bought 9 PC9s for which I really cant see a roll. They are next to useless in defence, the aer corps dont deploy overseas so we cant use them there, why do we have them?
Should we look at the aer corps and re-define its role?:confused:

[Jetjock]

We bought 9 PC9s for which I really cant see a roll.

Actually they do roll them from time to time, sometimes even a loop or a spin...but there are 8 not 9.

I actually do agree with most of what you are saying.

However, I will point out some other roles regularly undertaken by the air corps that are very useful and important.

ATCP: Top cover on Cash Escorts

SAR: Secondary to Maritime partol with the CASA's. Another Top Cover type role in supporting he Coast Guard helis.

Army Support: An increasingly important role in preparing Irish soldiers for overseas deployments where helicopter transport will be undertaken in theatre using other nation's or contracted helicopters.

[hedgehog]

Should we look at the aer corps and re-define its role?:confused:

I always thought we should get rid of all fixed wing aircraft in the AC and simply use Helicopters

this would mean that the long range MATS capability is gone (huraah)

if all the AC's budget was concentrated on Helis it would simplfy a lot-

I know the disadvantages of this si we would have to farm out the initial wings course
but that happened before with the white Marcetti's
and we would lose the CASA element as well.

[Goldie fish]

The CASA is a maritime aircraft, and consequently, it makes sense that it should be operated from the Naval Service. Indeed, it should also be operating from an airport at least close to it's AO, such as Cork, Shannon, or even Farranfore.

I can see there would be difficulties though, as none of the airfields I mention close on Saturdays and Sundays...

[DeV]

The 2007 Annual Report shows that the Air Corps flew a total of 11,700 hours, or an average of 225 hours per week. (Approx. 850 people in the Air Corps - how many pilots are there? Approx. 30 aircraft?)

40% of those hours were attributed to training, and another 4% to service and maintenance. After that it was

Army & Navy Support 15%
ATCP 15%
Maritime Patrol 12%
MATS/VIP 9%
Civil Assistance & PR 3%
Air Ambulance 2%

(see December 2008 issue of 'Flying in Ireland' for more details)

Ok how many of those activities are actually of importance. Beyond maritime ,the air ambulance seems to be the only one. Of the rest what actual use are they offering.

So ATCP isn't important?

The majority of time on army support is for training troops how to use helicopters & possibly ground attack aircraft. That isn't important?

We bought 9 PC9s for which I really cant see a roll. They are next to useless in defence, the aer corps dont deploy overseas so we cant use them there, why do we have them?

There role is a trainer (they replaced 2 different types of aircraft with a more capable aircraft). They train the pilots to fly, provide experience for troops with operating with aircraft and ground-attack capability.

The CASA is a maritime aircraft, and consequently, it makes sense that it should be operated from the Naval Service.

Would it make sense as there would then need to be an NS crash rescue service, NS ATC personnel, an NS airbase (or use a civilian airport), etc etc.

[GoneToTheCanner]

Hi there
The Air Corps' roles are defined partly by the nature of the Service; ie, aeroplanes need pilots who need initial and recurrent training and need to be serviced and tested and so on, so that's a self-generating exercise in itself.(quite why the air corps needs to consume 4% of it's annual hours on maintenance-related flights escapes me.I suspect that they are lumping in ferry flight hours to Spain and the USA, which is not quite the same thing). The fact that the AC are the air arm of the DF generates it's own specifically military tasks, such as troop lift and carriage of stores and weapons, anti-aircraft target towing, parachuting, ARW support, cash escort, limited SAR, NS support, air-to-ground training.Any other task, such as Garda support, island relief, MATS, air display flying,etc, which are of a non-military nature are generated by the fact that they are at the State's beck and call, rather than be at the whim of civil operators. Personally, I have always believed that the Gardai should carry out their own aviation.It is also well past time for the AC to operate from the other airports in the State.
regards
GttC

[Goldie fish]

Would it make sense as there would then need to be an NS crash rescue service, NS ATC personnel, an NS airbase (or use a civilian airport), etc etc.

The NS already train in firefighting. But as you would be operating from a civilian airfield,(as I suggested in the rest of my post which you did not quote)
which already has the assets you speak of, this would not be an issue. As for line maintenance, those AC people currently engaged in maintenance of the CASA either transfer to NS, (and operate NS working hours) or the NS DE suitably qualified people.

[DeV]

Given that the still can't move AC personnel from Gormanston to Baldonnel due to think that the could transfer them to the NS?

[GoneToTheCanner]

The AC personnel left in Gormo opted to stay there rather than uproot their families. I'm told it's as few as five heads. Why not move the NS to other ports on the island?
regards
GttC

[Goldie fish]

Because the infastructure already exists in haulbowline, and it is one of the Closest deepwater ports to the Main AO.