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Aer Corps - Ground Training and Instructional Airframes?

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  • Aer Corps - Ground Training and Instructional Airframes?

    I was wondering what the Aer Corps are now using as ground based instructional airframes. What made me ask was that recently the RNZAF has replaced its old Devon's with four Mistsubishi MU-2F's and will soon replace its Sioux and Huey helicopters with six older SH-2(F) Seasprite's for technical and trade training at its Woodborne based Ground Training Wing. Remaining aircraft, a 727 and a couple of old Strikemasters will be replaced by GTW in the near future.

    Would I be correct in guessing that they are usually older Aer Corps aircraft that end up as INST airframes with the excess disposed of in some inglorious way?

  • #2
    There used to be a literal pile of planes behind one of the hangers (a good few years ago now). When the Fouga was around there was one and there may have been an Alouette as well.

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    • #3
      Shhhhh

      your giving away our secret spare parts dump
      Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
      Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
      The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
      The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
      The best lack all conviction, while the worst
      Are full of passionate intensity.

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      • #4
        In the apprentice 'hanger' in the don there are no airframes with which the apprectices train on these days. Its all run on test beds and computers mostly with the workshops using parts of systems or full engines and the like to instruct, however, there use to be an allouette engineering frame within the building that had a transparent floor to show the linkages and flight controlls etc, but that had long since stopped being used for instruction even seven or eight years ago. It now resides in the museum along with allouette 202 which was the one that made the plunge into a lake all those years ago, now fully restored. In regards to training the newbie's, if ever they need to learn on airframes they are simply walked/marched from the school to any one of the hangers where upon they are shown around any of the aircraft by their instructor or one of the lads in the hangers who has more than likely been caught against his will to fill their eager little minds
        "You have exactly one minute to get your sh*t together and fall in in front of me.....ninety nine, ninety eight, ninety seven......"

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        • #5
          The FAS apprenticeships including on the job training may (I don't know) have reduced the need for them.

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          • #6
            Hi there
            We used to have the shell of "221" , an African Marchetti; 3-KE, which was a Fouga, the skeletal Alouette, which was excellent for learning about control systems and lots of smaller parts. We were not actually allowed to touch the Fouga in case we broke it! We did do a lot of stuff on old engines and various other derelict bits.Compared to the RAF and even civvie schools in the UK, we had virtually nothing.In all, we had virtually no practical hands on training compared to the UK system and were essentially clueless by the time we got to the hangars.As is always the case, they hated spending money on training of techs.........Things are infinitely better now and the quality of training is genuinely first-class.
            regards
            GttC

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            • #7
              Yep. Things have definitely inproved no end. Where'as we use to have to learn the sacred art of wirelocking 'on the job' the lads coming up now are so much better equipped mentaly and with some of the tools too!! Learning on airframes however is excellent for concentrating the mind on the job skills you are learning. But the Don has come on in leaps and bounds and has embraced technology to somewhat offset our small size. And i have no doubt that as it has always been, aircorp lads will continue to punch above their weight both when employed at the Don or elsewhere.
              "You have exactly one minute to get your sh*t together and fall in in front of me.....ninety nine, ninety eight, ninety seven......"

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              • #8
                The "Apprentice Hangar" has been re-furbished and a lot of money spent on it. There are dedicated engine rooms with engines that run and have "snags" built into it at a flick of a switch or two, a rig which is used for wirelocking, piping and that kind of thing(nice tight spaces where you could lose a knuckle or two!) an excellent welding/sheet metal shop, the usual workshop with lathes and milling machines and the trusty file and hacksaws. On the hangar floor they have different rigs for hydraulics & undercarriages, and a working Alouette 111 which is in a ground running and working condition (not sure which tail number).

                I'm sure that the Marchetti 231 could be used as an instructional airframe/engine as it is complete.

                Will admit though it drove us nuts up camp when apprentices come up to the hangars and cant wirelock or put in a split pin. The young lads coming up now seem to have their wits about them, at least for awhile anyway!

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                • #9
                  Hi all,
                  The following are the airframes/rigs
                  Vampire T11, 198 ex RAF XE977 now at Collins Bks.
                  Fouga 221 ex French Air Force 3K-E in the Museum at Baldonnel
                  Marchetti 223
                  Alouette Rig is now in the Museum at Baldonnel
                  Alouette 202 is now in the Ulster Aviation Society Museum and Heritage Centre at Long Kesh airfield
                  Alouette 195 is now in the Apprentice Section and as Claudel H says is in working order
                  Regards
                  Tony K
                  Attached Files

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                  • #10
                    Are apprentos actually allowed to touch these artifacts? By the way, Tony, is the UAS heritage centre open to the public yet?
                    regards
                    GttC

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
                      Are apprentos actually allowed to touch these artifacts? By the way, Tony, is the UAS heritage centre open to the public yet?
                      regards
                      GttC
                      GttC,
                      The Museum at Long Kesh is not yet open to the public, it was as you know the site of the Maze prison which had been built on the site of the WW2 airfield. Two of the original hangars remain and the collection is housed in one of them. The prison buildings are being demolished so health and safety have entry restricted until completed. Two weeks ago there was an open day which had to be extensivly marshalled by the volunteers of the UAS. I have no doubt that a visit could be arranged if a group were interested rather than an individual.
                      I posted a list of exhibits on Frank's website WorldAirPics.com, and here are a few more.

                      Short330 with Team Himax1700R in foreground
                      Hawker Seahawk
                      Grumman Wildcat restoration project ( recovered from a dunking in Lough Neagh)
                      Tony K
                      Attached Files

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                      • #12
                        Sorry Tony but the SF260 isn't 223. That crashed tragically some years ago. The SF260 that is here is 231.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Claudel Hopson View Post
                          Sorry Tony but the SF260 isn't 223. That crashed tragically some years ago. The SF260 that is here is 231.
                          Of course you are correct Claudel, apologies, finger trouble and old age creeping up. 233 is the Marchetti instruction airframe and SF260 231 is in the museum. Am now donning sackcloth and ashes as appropriate.:redface:
                          Tony K

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
                            Hi there
                            We used to have the shell of "221" , an African Marchetti; 3-KE, which was a Fouga, the skeletal Alouette, which was excellent for learning about control systems and lots of smaller parts. We were not actually allowed to touch the Fouga in case we broke it! We did do a lot of stuff on old engines and various other derelict bits.Compared to the RAF and even civvie schools in the UK, we had virtually nothing.In all, we had virtually no practical hands on training compared to the UK system and were essentially clueless by the time we got to the hangars.As is always the case, they hated spending money on training of techs.........Things are infinitely better now and the quality of training is genuinely first-class.
                            regards
                            GttC
                            Even with that poor standard of resources, the quality of technician turned out was second to none. Quantas famously cleaned out Baldonnel in the 1980s, Aer Lingus was basically built on ex Air Corps Apprentices, along with many others. Was the President of Cathay Pacific an Ex Air Corps Apprentice too? In fact Air Corps Apprentices have gone on to many diverse careers including commerical Pilots (some qualified while serving), engineers, Information technology, even a successful hypnotist who had a show in the canner around 20 years ago :D
                            FougaM
                            Corporal
                            Last edited by FougaM; 3 September 2009, 21:14.

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                            • #15
                              Are the quals that the apprentices transferable to civilian jobs or is there a conversion course they need to do ?
                              Every man thinks meanly of himself for not having been a soldier - Samuel Johnson

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