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  • Eurofighter?

    Watchdog denounces ‘flawed’ Eurofighter as unfit for combat.

    Justin Sparkes
    Sunday Times

    The Eurofighter, developed at a cost of billons of pounds as the frontline air defence for Britain and other European nations for the next quarter of a century, has been criticised as obsolete and technically flawed.
    Germany’s Federal Audit Court, which monitors government purchases, claims to have exposed a range of problems from the side fins to the weapons guidance software.
    The draft report, a copy of which has been obtained by the Sunday Times, says that plane is not permitted to take off when temperatures drop below 5C in misty conditions due to “icing” problems that have still not been resolved. It also claims the cockpit canopy may not withstand the impact of a bird smashing against it.
    Britain’s Ministry of Defence has ordered 232 Eurofighters. Germany - part of a four nation consortium alongside Britain, Spain and Italy making the plane - is due to buy 180.
    But the report, to be presented to the German parliament later this year, presses the government to “urgently renegotiate” the contract amid talk of spiralling costs and fears that the place will not be fir to fly combat missions “for the foreseeable future”.
    The inventory of “alarming shortcomings” includes claims that the plane’s top speed is 1,250mph - 300mph less that its contract specifications require - and its operational ceiling is 36,000ft rather than the required 54,000ft.
    The report also claims pilots have experienced electronic systems failures that affect data readings. As a result, the aircraft is not permitted to travel more than 20 minutes’ flying time from the nearest landing strip.
    The radar and tracking systems have also been heavily criticised. Objects such as missiles or planes picked up by the cockpit computer can be shown as travelling away when in fact they are attacking.
    The report also claims that the Eurofighter will cost 50% more to operate than the Tornado planes currently used by Germany and Britain. It estimates the development costs so far at £4.3 billion and expects them to rise drastically.
    Despite the criticism, the British and German defence ministries have insisted they are standing with the project.
    Ian Bustin a spokesman for Eurofighter has refuted the criticism in the document, accusing investigators of relying on outdated information.
    “Some of the areas alluded to in the document, such as problems with the side fins, were in fact announced by ourselves,” said Bustin.
    “But the problem, like all the others, is ancient history. The current Eurofighter is 100% fully functional and a place that the RAF and German pilots consider a league ahead of the competition.”

  • #2
    Well of course there's problems, no self-respecting European would EVER fly a plane with missiles on it! Right? :D
    "Everyone's for a free Tibet, but no one's for freeing Tibet." -Mark Steyn. What an IMO-centric quote, eh?


    • #3
      Note the paper involved ...

      The FAC in Germany is like the GAO in the US, its their job to find fault with everything. The Eurofighter is just entering service, if there was'nt problems of this magnitute with a system that complex, I'd be much more worried. In short, its the 'Times' pissing on everything with a vaguely European tint again.


      • #4
        Eurofighter Bah!

        Even so, at the end of the day the Eurofighter is still a 60's-70's Design, Personally i hate the Bugger. :-patriot:

        The JSF will be something Though!!!!:D


        • #5
          Re: Eurofighter Bah!

          Originally posted by Fox
          Even so, at the end of the day the Eurofighter is still a 60's-70's Design,
          Do you know much about aircraft design by any chance?


          • #6
            There has been an anti-Eurofighter slant recently in the British media, the Telegraph has also been involved in calls to cancel it, though again not much surprise there.


            • #7
              Originally posted by Fox
              The JSF will be something Though!!!!:D
              Yep, certainly will. It'll be overweight, expensive and unsuited for the tasks which most customer nations want it for. In the case of the US, theres a substantial argument that it'd be better to delete the programme altogether and spend about a tenth of the money on UCAVs and purchasing a few more F-22s.

              I believe the technical term for a programme like this is 'pork'.


              • #8
                There is still considerable support in the U.S. for the continued construction and development for the F-16, at the expense of the JSF. I do not know if many of you remember the F-16's arrival in Europe, to put it politely............ it sucked!
                Fox is almost correct in that the Eurofighter design commenced in the '70's, it really should have entered service in the early '90's, but was delayed by, mainly, political factors. As for the Eurofighter's capablities, it appears equal to the F-15[a] for air-to-air and very close to the Strike-Eagle for mud-moving, hardly a dissapointment.
                The whole program of fighter and fighter bomber[ they are to all intents and porposes the same animal] is a very complicated thing and takes far longer then Supermarine took to get the Spitfire from idea to operational, without the benifit of a lot of modern conveniences. But a Spitfire had a working life expectancy of 5-7 years, while the Eurofighter and it's peers has one of 35-50 years.
                "We will hold out until our last bullet is spent. Could do with some whiskey"
                Radio transmission, siege of Jadotville DR Congo. September 1961.
                Illegitimi non carborundum


                • #9
                  The Eurofighter and JSF both have signfigant desgin flaws, but the mixing of the two should weaken thier vulnrebility.


                  • #10
                    F-22 development started in 1986
                    F-35 in 1994
                    Typhoon in 1986
                    SU-35/37 (based on existing Su-27) mid 80s
                    Rafale in early 80s
                    MiG 1.42MFI in 1986
                    "It is a general popular error to imagine that loudest complainers for the public to be the most anxious for it's welfare" Edmund Burke


                    • #11
                      Here are the results for the Eurofighter in an air to air combat role.
                      They were carried out (don't know when) by Britian's Defence Evaluation and Research Agency (DERA).

                      The DERA Study
                      Britian's Defence Evaluation and Research Agency (now split into QinetiQ and DSTL) did an operational evaluation comparing the Typhoon with other fighters in how well they performed against an expected adversary aircraft, the Sukhoi Su-35.

                      The study used real pilots flying the JOUST system of networked simulators. Various western aircraft were put in simulated combat against the Su-35. The results were:

                      F/A-22 Raptor 10.1 : 1
                      Typhoon 4.5 : 1
                      Rafale 1.0 : 1
                      Su-35 1.0 : 1
                      F-15C 0.8 : 1
                      F/A-18+ 0.4 : 1
                      F/A-18C 0.3 : 1
                      F-16C 0.3 : 1

                      These results mean, for example, that in simulated combat, 4.5 Su-35s were shot down for every Typhoon lost.

                      The "F/A-18+" in the study was apparently not the current F/A-18E/F, but an improved version. All the western aircraft in the simulation were using the AMRAAM missile, except the Rafale which was using the MICA missile


                      • #12
                        Given that Eurofighter will also be equipped with BVRAAM/Meteors and ASRAAM, it will greatly increase its performance in the air to air role. :o


                        • #13
                          won't the Rafle also be using the Metor in the future. WHy did they not include the Gripin, or Mirage 2000-5/9


                          • #14
                            Ive seen it at the Farnborough Air Show last year and its loud damn loud.


                            • #15
                              Most Proper Combat jets are pretty loud. Tornado and Harrier are loud,I assume that Eurofighter is quieter than them,but the older the jet,the louder. Former soviet bloc jets didnt care much about noise either.. Worst I heard was the Mig21 and mig 19...nothing can describe the earsplitting noise,especially when the 'burners come on..
                              Best comparison is if you were to tear a linen sheet in two,and amplify it to about 200Db...Loud and harsh..

                              Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.