'COASTWATCH' aircraft

[Silver]

Having recently read an excellent article in 'Air International' (about the Netherlands Coast Guard) it got me thinking again about the lack of patrol aircraft for Customs and Coast Guard operations.

The Netherlands have recently purchased 2 x Dornier 228 aircraft to operate in the 'KUSTWACHT' role. (Previously 1 x Dornier 228 was in use from 1992)

The aircraft are piloted by RNLAF and RNN (Navy) pilots and crewed by trained observers from the Netherlands Coast Guard, Navy, Police, Dept of Environment, etc etc

While the Casa CN235's operated by the Air Corps do an excellent job, I believe that Customs and the Coast Guard need smaller aircraft for coastal patrols closer along the coastline.....and the south west coastline in particular - to combat illegal drug shipments.

I'm sure part-funding from the EU could be part of such a purchase.....considering the new EU Naval/Coast Guard operations centre set up (in Spain?) to pool information and plan operations in EU waters.


Netherlands Dornier 228

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Kustw...212/1272322/M/

[Goldie fish]

Why not just give the Air Corps more aircraft for the job, rather than creating more air forces in one country? We have 3 already.

[zone 1]

where's the 3 Goldie would i be right in saying N Ireland. but you are right just give it to the air corps experience and know the job full stop .. to me the custom boats should have been given to the navy more experience at sea and with situations that arise with it............

[Goldie fish]

Air Corpse, Coastguard, Gardai. All have their own fleet of state operated aircraft.

[DeV]

It would be A LOT cheaper to give them to the AC (maintanance, training, crewing, experience etc etc)

[Tadpole]

Absolutely correct, there should only be one operator of all assets but that operator MUST be capable of providing a credible, efficient and effective service with the assets and budget provided. Is this the Air Corps? No.

15-1600 hrs per year total from 2 mid size twin turbines. At 6 hours per patrol that's a little over 250 patrols per year, not even one a day!! How many are conducted over night and early morning ie 2200-0400, I can guess its none.

No 24hr call out, accept ' as available', useless.

And whats the cost, including aircraft, pilots, ROs, engineers, base facilities, ATC and all the other bits that it takes to run the AC.

As an example PAL provide surveillance off the Canadian East coast. 3 SKA 200 modified for maritime surveillance, 24/7 call out and an average of 5000hrs per year. Total cost: €7.5 mil per year.

Not saying the Air Corps shoudn't be doing this but they need to wake up and realise that they cannot sit on their backsides, leave aircraft sitting on the ground and not cover 24hr call and then expect more aircraft. Its very simple, look at SAR, its gone for ever. Either the Air Corps pulls up its socks or when these machines come up for replacement its civvies that will be doing it.

Even the Kustwatch aircraft that started this thread, although managed by the RNLAF and flown by the RNLN, are civil owned and maintained by Jet Support.

PS Just heard an AC Casa put out a mayday 90nm of the coast with smoke in the cockpit, thankfully landed little while ago in Kerry. Hopefully all on board ok.

[BANDIT]

Well said Tadpole. Similar shake , perhaps not as radical needed in other branches,

[Eddie Dillon]

It's hardly the Air Corps that needs to pull up its socks, its the Government that are the policy and decision makers in almost all of these aspects being discussed. Why do so many on this board talk about the DF as if they are some kind of an independent organisation that can decide when and where to deploy, what services to provide etc etc?? The Govt. are the lord and masters and these decisions are theirs alone. Unfortunately

[Tadpole]

The Government decide on the allocation of resources, correct, but if that allocation is inefficiently or ineffectively utilised then the Government will provide the resources to somebody else.
The poor utilisation of the Casa's are purely down to Air Corps operational doctrine and policy, not that of the Government. The Air Corps need to realise that they ARE in a market driven economy and that they cannot expect their customers (yes they do have customers just like in any other marketplace), Government, wider DF, Coastguard, Customs, tax payers etc to continue to reward poor service when a more effective solution is presented from a civil company.
The Air Corps need to realise that they now need to compete for this slice of the pie by providing a cost effective first rate service or it will be given to civil companies...and so it should. Sit on your hands and its gone with very little chance of getting it back.

Watch this space: SAR, Garda RW maintenance already gone. Whats next HEMS (Not that its really done)? Air Ambulance? Maritime Patrol? VIP Transport? Garda flight Operations? Troop training? Airborne CIT?
Nothing above that cannot be done by a civil company. What would that leave the Air Corps with?
Its simple, get Proactive not Reactive or slowly dwindle away.

[Helihead]

Tadpole, you have pretty much hit the nail on the head. Top cover will be the next one to be contracted out, as of now that isn't available 24/7 365.

[Goldie fish]

The Government decide on the allocation of resources, correct, but if that allocation is inefficiently or ineffectively utilised then the Government will provide the resources to somebody else.
The poor utilisation of the Casa's are purely down to Air Corps operational doctrine and policy, not that of the Government. The Air Corps need to realise that they ARE in a market driven economy and that they cannot expect their customers (yes they do have customers just like in any other marketplace), Government, wider DF, Coastguard, Customs, tax payers etc to continue to reward poor service when a more effective solution is presented from a civil company.
The Air Corps need to realise that they now need to compete for this slice of the pie by providing a cost effective first rate service or it will be given to civil companies...and so it should. Sit on your hands and its gone with very little chance of getting it back.

Watch this space: SAR, Garda RW maintenance already gone. Whats next HEMS (Not that its really done)? Air Ambulance? Maritime Patrol? VIP Transport? Garda flight Operations? Troop training? Airborne CIT?
Nothing above that cannot be done by a civil company. What would that leave the Air Corps with?
Its simple, get Proactive not Reactive or slowly dwindle away.

+1
The Air Corps cannot assume they will get the job because the tricolour is painted on the tail. Indeed the initial lack of cooperation from Pilots put the GASU at great risk. Luckily someone saw sense.

[GoneToTheCanner]

tadpole,
The self-inflicted erosion of the AC's ability to do jobs inhouse began a long time ago. They were taking so long to overhaul Marchettis that Irish Helis got the contract and did the job in jig time and under budget.The Don is run to suit itself and if that means perpetuating inefficiencies, then that's how it goes.
regards
GttC

[zone 1]

we should have at least 2 more casa for maritime work thats the only real job left for the air corps let the garda train there own officers to fly there choppers plus let the government fly economy with air lingus or ryanair lose those planes and what ever else they have for VIP . have some maritime aircraft based out of cork or galway

[easyrider]

For comparison, "Marine Scotland - Compliance owns two Reims Cessna Caravan II F-406 aircraft (Watchdog Alpha and Watchdog Bravo), which are used for aerial surveillance as part of our fisheries enforcement responsibilities. The current aircraft were delivered in 2008 after being built for Marine Scotland - Compliance at the Reims factory in France.

The aircraft are based at Inverness Airport and responsibility for providing aircrew and maintenance is contracted out to Highland Airways. Under this contract, the aircraft are scheduled to fly for up to 1900 hours per annum (1700 on surveillance and up to 200 hours in transit getting the aircraft to and from their tasked areas)...."

[zone 1]

how many aircraft should we have for maritime work