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  • Mi8

    How about a more unusual & economical suggestion for a trooplift helicopter?





    Right, might seem a little unusual, but this type has a good safety record, is used succesfully all over the world, in some fairly challenging environments.
    It'd also provide an introduction to operation of larger helicopters, and acquisition costs aren't prohibitive.
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    With 50,000 men getting killed a week, who's going to miss a pigeon?

    Guns don't kill people, bullets kill people.

  • #2
    hmm

    Interesting idea. I was watching one of those national geographic on asignment documentries and the group were being airlifted around kamchatka peninsula in an Mi8. Upon landing it had to go through some repairs.... the pilots stuck duct tape around the rotors

    The national geographic people described the aircraft as a rust bucket, but hey it got them there and back in one piece...

    I think I remember reading about a western engined civilian version of the Mi8.. I don't know if it was ever produced in any number

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    • #3
      Was there not an MI8 in the original line up of choices for the medium lift heli,but westernised by some Israeli company?


      Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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      • #4
        If it's good enough for the Finns it's good enough for us!

        Im not sure if it's the Mil 8 or 17 that the Finnish use but if they can use it so can we as a western country! Besides with our tiny Defence budget we should perhaps be looking east for some things after all look at what the Greeks are doing, they don't seem to have a problem with buying Eastern block equipment.

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        • #5
          According to the former EO pilots in Bloodsong the Mi-17 compared favourably with the oryx, its main weaknesses being ergonomics and avionics both issues which would be resolved by the purchase of a KRF or similar model.
          "It is a general popular error to imagine that loudest complainers for the public to be the most anxious for it's welfare" Edmund Burke

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          • #6
            http://www.sinodefence.com/airforce/...opter/mi17.asp
            Meh.

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            • #7
              Link

              I really like the idea of the Mi-8/Mi-17, sounds like a reliable and solid aircraft at a comparitively low price to the western alternatives. Now can someone start listing the downsides, surely there must be some?

              Anyway RE: the Mi-17 upgrade, this may be of interest:

              http://defence-data.com/paris2001/pagepa1116.htm

              It asks you for a user login/password - i just press cancel and am able to read it

              The relevant part:

              "After its first exposure to the public at the India Air Show in February 2001 IAI has brought its upgraded Mi-17 Demonstrator to the Paris Air Show.

              The Mi-17 upgrade package, designated "Peak-17", has an advanced "Glass Cockpit" and includes a state-of-the-art modular Avionics System, an Electronic Warfare Suite and a flexible armament package.

              The upgrade package transforms the original Mi-17 cockpit, into modern computerised crew stations, utilising multifunction electronic display that provide the crew with the relevant information for each specific segment of their mission.

              The Tactical Upgrade Package offered by IAI/LAHAV expands the helicopter's mission envelope by providing full capabilities at night and in adverse weather conditions, while significantly improving the helicopter's battlefield survivability."

              EDIT EDIT EDIT:
              Bottom of this next link has an extensive section on the Mi-8/17 Upgrades

              http://www.armada.ch/01-6/002full.htm
              Last edited by nonexistantfoo; 5 December 2003, 13:43.

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              • #8
                The usually cited downsides for Russian equipment include

                reliability [engines in particular]
                more maintenance intensive [again engines in particular, one example being the shorter time between overhaul (TBO)]
                continuity of spares supply [perhaps not such an issue anymore].

                Finally, you gets what you pays for.

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                • #9
                  Is there a private operator using this type or something similar in Ireland.
                  I was recently in Waterford and spotted a rather large Blue heli, that lookerd to be of russian design heading out of the city towards the coast.
                  I first tought it was one of the SAR units based out of the airport but they use SeaKings in Dept of Marine livery.
                  "Dwight D. Eisenhower: The best morale exists when you never hear the word mentioned. When you hear it it's usually lousy.

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                  • #10
                    By all accounts of the Mi-17 its engines are supremely reliable, it has continued to operate in near zero maintenance conditions without any overhaul., although all of these critiscisms could be just as well aimed at a number of famous western helicopter families (H-60 anyone)
                    With regards to your last comment there is such a thing as a bargain.
                    "It is a general popular error to imagine that loudest complainers for the public to be the most anxious for it's welfare" Edmund Burke

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Come-quickly
                      By all accounts of the Mi-17 its engines are supremely reliable, it has continued to operate in near zero maintenance conditions without any overhaul., although all of these critiscisms could be just as well aimed at a number of famous western helicopter families (H-60 anyone)
                      With regards to your last comment there is such a thing as a bargain.
                      Apply some engineering judgement to your first comment; it is quite possible to quote instances in which relatively primitive equipment operates for extended periods before overhaul, all the while safety margins are eroding. Some of these instances will precede a catastrophic failure of the component.

                      Generally, Russian engines will be heavier, less efficient and require more mantenance that their Western equivalent. Reasons for this include less sophisticated design methods and less sophisticated metallurgical technology.

                      The objective reality applies to all aircraft equally.
                      Last edited by John; 5 December 2003, 17:20.

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                      • #12
                        The Russian engines undoubtedly use older technology, and are less efficient. This however doesnt seem to stop the Mi8 system working well in a large number of organisations. The red examples in the pictures above for instance are operated by the Portugese Fire Service.

                        The designs were generally also made for maintenance by conscripts, so tend to be on the simple side. This shouldnt be too much of a handicap for professional technicians.


                        On a side note, the heli that pranged on the Polish PM during the week was one of these.
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                        With 50,000 men getting killed a week, who's going to miss a pigeon?

                        Guns don't kill people, bullets kill people.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Familiar tune?

                          Polish premier's helicopter crash dramatizes need for new VIP fleet

                          05/12/2003 at 17:08:13

                          Date line: WARSAW
                          The crash of a Russian-built Mi-8 helicopter while carrying Polish Prime Minister Leszek Miller makes the purchase of new government aircraft an urgent necessity, Defense Minister Jerzy Szmajdzinski said Friday.

                          Miller and nine other persons were injured when the helicopter crash-landed after an apparent engine failure on Thursday.

                          Szmajdzinski told the Polish news agency PAP that he would ask parliament to tender for a new fleet of VIP aircraft to replace the government's existing Soviet-built Tupolev 154Ms and Yak-40s.

                          The government fleet of five MI-8 helicopters was grounded pending an investigation of Thursday's incident.

                          A commission of inquiry into the cause of the crash was set up by Chief of Staff Czeslaw Piatas.

                          The government suspended the last tender offer in August.

                          At the time, the French Dassault Aviation company was the only bidder, with an offer to supply four Falcon 900 EX executive jets.

                          The possibility of France's equipping the Polish executive fleet was raised again during a recent visit to Poland by Prime Minister Jean-Pierre Raffarin, accompanied by the president of Dassault Aviation.

                          Miller, who was recovering in hospital from two fractured vertebrae, has said he expects to be out in time to attend the summit meeting of the European Union in Brussels next Friday.

                          © 2003 AFP

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Seeing those pics from Liberia resurrected this thread in my mind

                            Anyone know what costs of Mi-8 are like? Read on several sites that Mi-26s run at around $10m-$15m USD.
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                            With 50,000 men getting killed a week, who's going to miss a pigeon?

                            Guns don't kill people, bullets kill people.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Well 10-15m USD would get you a single unspectacular Cougar, So I'd imagine you could get a pretty gucci M-8 or two for that amount.
                              "It is a general popular error to imagine that loudest complainers for the public to be the most anxious for it's welfare" Edmund Burke

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