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  • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
    Leonardo are hoping that replacing the Puma in British service will give them some form of military credibility. I'd be more interested in seeing what the French do.
    The French have being replacing their Puma & Cougar helicopters with the NH90 for some years now. That decision was made a long time ago.

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    • Originally posted by EUFighter View Post

      The French have being replacing their Puma & Cougar helicopters with the NH90 for some years now. That decision was made a long time ago.
      The Caracal is gone to Air Force though.

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      • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post

        The Caracal is gone to Air Force though.
        There were only 8 Caracal's in ALAT service and they will be replaced by a Special Forces version of the NH90.

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        • Given that the AW-139s suffered in the firefighting and would appear to need an MLU, my (hovertank) proposal would e to shuffle them sideways into civilian roles (paint them orange, equip them ans high a you can as a flying ICU and call them aer ambulance).

          Instead I suggest buying 20 AW101. Avoids the issues of NH90 and they cost about the same in investment. I'd assume that maintenance is more though.

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          • Originally posted by Graylion View Post
            Given that the AW-139s suffered in the firefighting and would appear to need an MLU, my (hovertank) proposal would e to shuffle them sideways into civilian roles (paint them orange, equip them ans high a you can as a flying ICU and call them aer ambulance).

            Instead I suggest buying 20 AW101. Avoids the issues of NH90 and they cost about the same in investment. I'd assume that maintenance is more though.
            While the 101 is a fine aircraft, it is also much bigger, needing 3 engines just to Hover. It's in S92 territory.
            Better off going back to basics and replace the AW139 with the aircraft we should have had from day 1. The Sikorsky S-70. I note that the USCG had intended to purchase the AW139 but after 9/11 decided it no longer fit the bill and went with the Jayhawk instead.
            Coast Guard Receives New Jayhawk - Vertical Mag

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            • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post

              While the 101 is a fine aircraft, it is also much bigger, needing 3 engines just to Hover. It's in S92 territory.
              Better off going back to basics and replace the AW139 with the aircraft we should have had from day 1. The Sikorsky S-70. I note that the USCG had intended to purchase the AW139 but after 9/11 decided it no longer fit the bill and went with the Jayhawk instead.
              Coast Guard Receives New Jayhawk - Vertical Mag
              Yeah, that was intentional. Submission 199 is talking about buying 5 CH-47 and 15(?) medium coppers. So, I'd rather have a homogeneous fleet. And also not a fan of not buying European. And the 3 turbines are for redundancy, there are much bigger choppers running on 2.

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              • What's the point?

                Without a reform of the DOD
                Without them being planned to be deployed overseas.
                without a defensive suite
                without the infrastructure to support them
                without regularly sustaining ops away from Bal
                without proper integration with the wider defence forces
                without more techs, aircrew, pilots
                without an overhaul of work and maintenance schedules...

                ...without all this it's just window dressing for fancy Facebook videos.
                Last edited by warthog; 9 September 2021, 23:15. Reason: spelling

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                • Originally posted by warthog View Post
                  What's the point?

                  Without a reform of the DOD
                  Without them being planned to be deployed overseas.
                  without a defensive suite
                  without the infrastructure to support them
                  without regularly sustaining ops away from Bal
                  without proper integration with the wider defence forces
                  without more techs, aircrew, pilots
                  without an overhaul of work and maintenance schedules...

                  ...without all this it's just window dressing for fancy Facebook videos.
                  Without the people required to operate them

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                  • Originally posted by DeV View Post

                    Without the people required to operate them
                    Ah but does having more shiny toys to play with not act as a great recruiting tool?

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                    • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post

                      Ah but does having more shiny toys to play with not act as a great recruiting tool?
                      Good capabilities (and their employment) could be a very good retention aid.

                      a flight of medium lift on an overseas op for example

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                      • You know what, when it comes to even a short distance deployment away from Baldonnel, people will moan. They moaned about going to the ship, way back when. They moaned about working with the Navy, the Gardai, the Army. they moaned about the Border,back in Alouette days and they moaned about going to Spain to deal with the Casa. they even moaned about having to "do" courses on newer aircraft like the PC-9. Some of it is justified but some of it is just whinging, but a fundamental "garrison" mentality still exists and has to be got rid of. Some people love cross-cooperation,others hate it and it's a two-way street so a mentality shift is in order, right across the DF. Same applies to DoD, but that's for the higher-ups to sort out.

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                        • Originally posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
                          You know what, when it comes to even a short distance deployment away from Baldonnel, people will moan. They moaned about going to the ship, way back when. They moaned about working with the Navy, the Gardai, the Army. they moaned about the Border,back in Alouette days and they moaned about going to Spain to deal with the Casa. they even moaned about having to "do" courses on newer aircraft like the PC-9. Some of it is justified but some of it is just whinging, but a fundamental "garrison" mentality still exists and has to be got rid of. Some people love cross-cooperation,others hate it and it's a two-way street so a mentality shift is in order, right across the DF. Same applies to DoD, but that's for the higher-ups to sort out.
                          Absolutely

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                          • You can only get what will be in production at the time the order will be delivered. I am fond of the AW-101 but there are very few remaining to be delivered and some of the long lead items will soon start to become difficult to source. The Airbus H225M is a bit more secure in terms of orders but even there Airbus is pushing the smaller H175M as the replacement of the legacy RAF Pumas. Even the S-70 family is nearing the end of its production run although still available from a number of sources.

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                            • DSEI is currently happening in London.
                              Leonardo are showcasing the AW149 of course,
                              https://twitter.com/i/status/1435223575670132737
                              but not to be outdone, Airbus are also there with the surprisingly similar H175M.
                              Click image for larger version

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                              • If we want to stick with the small end of medium, these 2 are the candiates. Buy 18 + 6 AW 101, or 18 AW 101 or something to that effect.

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