AgustaWestland AW139

[DeV]

So as per the commission and the need for larger aircraft are we looking at the 149 if we stay with AW?

Well the explicit recommendations are:
“…two additional medium lift rotary wing aircraft for enhanced Defence Forces support and priority ATCA taskings;
• The ultimate replacement of the existing medium lift helicopter fleet with a fleet of eight super-medium helicopters;”

Both of those are “Accepted in principle” - “further consideration is required on the optimal approach to meeting the intent of the Commission.“




if LOA3 is decided:
“The overseas deployment of combat aircraft, pilots and support personnel to provide organic intra- theatre mobility based on tactical transport helicopters. Deployed forces would also have an organic helicopter combat SAR capability armed and equipped to operate in hostile environments;
• ARW/SOF would have an organic self-sustainment capability, which would include dedicated combat helicopter assets to insert, operate and extract from mission areas.”

both of these are revert of Government “revert to Government at a later stage with regard to this recommendation.” (These have to be a step up)






so if we were to stay Leonardo, AW149/NH90/EH101

not sure if 149 can be classed as “super medium”

[ODIN]

Leonardo Helicopter	MTOW
AW-09	2850kg
AW-119M	3150kg
AW-109M	3350kg
AW-169M	4800kg
AW-159M (Lynx/Wildcat)	60500kg
AW-139M	7000kg
AW-149M	8600kg
NH-90	11000kg
AW-101	15300kg

Is the figure on the Lynx correct?!? That's insane if so!!

[na grohmiti]

Is the figure on the Lynx correct?!? That's insane if so!!

I'd say there's an extra zero there. The lynx was in the 5T heli bracket originally.

[EUFighter]

Is the figure on the Lynx correct?!? That's insane if so!!

Was one zero too many, it should be 6050kg

[EUFighter]

Well the explicit recommendations are:
“…two additional medium lift rotary wing aircraft for enhanced Defence Forces support and priority ATCA taskings;
• The ultimate replacement of the existing medium lift helicopter fleet with a fleet of eight super-medium helicopters;”

Both of those are “Accepted in principle” - “further consideration is required on the optimal approach to meeting the intent of the Commission.“




if LOA3 is decided:
“The overseas deployment of combat aircraft, pilots and support personnel to provide organic intra- theatre mobility based on tactical transport helicopters. Deployed forces would also have an organic helicopter combat SAR capability armed and equipped to operate in hostile environments;
• ARW/SOF would have an organic self-sustainment capability, which would include dedicated combat helicopter assets to insert, operate and extract from mission areas.”

both of these are revert of Government “revert to Government at a later stage with regard to this recommendation.” (These have to be a step up)






so if we were to stay Leonardo, AW149/NH90/EH101

not sure if 149 can be classed as “super medium”

The capacity of the AW139M and the AW149M are not far apart. The AW149M was targeted to compete with the S70 Blackhawk family which while being a 11t helicopter only has a fully equipped troop capacity with side gunners similar to the AW139. IMHO a larger aircraft would be in the S90/H225M/NH90 size.

[pilatus]

The following is an excerpt from Airforces Monthly June 2022 edition. There was an article titled "Ireland hits 100". The article was written after a visit to Bal. There was a section in the article that relates to new helicopter's:

"The Report of the Commission
on Defence Forces suggested that
Ireland procured a minimum of
eight super-medium helicopters
to replace the AW139 in IAC
service, along with further training
and utility rotorcraft. Also, the
Irish Naval Service is moving
towards acquisition of a new multi-
role vessel, which will have an
embarked helicopter capability that
will likely be maintained by the IAC.
Both will enhance the operational
capabilities of No 3 Operations
Wing, which will look towards
adopting new responsibilities and
overcoming new challenges over
the next two decades. A decision
regarding fleet replacement has
yet to be made, but options
include the Leonardo Helicopters
AW149 and Airbus Helicopters H175M."

[GoneToTheCanner]

The following is an excerpt from Airforces Monthly June 2022 edition. There was an article titled "Ireland hits 100". The article was written after a visit to Bal. There was a section in the article that relates to new helicopter's:

"The Report of the Commission
on Defence Forces suggested that
Ireland procured a minimum of
eight super-medium helicopters
to replace the AW139 in IAC
service, along with further training
and utility rotorcraft. Also, the
Irish Naval Service is moving
towards acquisition of a new multi-
role vessel, which will have an
embarked helicopter capability that
will likely be maintained by the IAC.
Both will enhance the operational
capabilities of No 3 Operations
Wing, which will look towards
adopting new responsibilities and
overcoming new challenges over
the next two decades. A decision
regarding fleet replacement has
yet to be made, but options
include the Leonardo Helicopters
AW149 and Airbus Helicopters H175M."

I hope they have a word with the Navy about proper cooperation re ; heli ops, this time around. I'd give the Navy their own heli and let them have their own crews and mechs and support.

[DeV]

https://www.airbus.com/sites/g/files/jlcbta136/files/2022-12/20220922_H175M_infographic.jpg

[na grohmiti]

Some very lightly equipped troops in the troop seats there. Also, why is Airbus (a European entity) giving imperial figures? I want KGs, not LBS damnit. this isn't the dark ages.

[gaff85]

I would still like any replacements/additions to have fixed hard points available in case we ever have a need for more than a transport

[GoneToTheCanner]

I would still like any replacements/additions to have fixed hard points available in case we ever have a need for more than a transport

Even the old Gazelle had provision for a weapons pylon from Day 1. Ours didnt but the holes were there in the hull for a boom for mounting guns, RP or external tanks. These days, the Airbus-based helicopter is a plug and play device. Want NVG? Want pylons? want rappelling hooks? want self sealing fuel tanks? want hoists? Just point at them in the catalogue and pay the man. Casa is the same; tell the builder what you want early enough and it can be in the build from the start, instead of coming back later and paying cartoon money to add stuff in. Helicopters and other aircraft have gone the way of cars; you pick your colour and your fitout and the assembly people print out the build schedule when they get the first deposit.

[DeV]

The RAF may be keeping the Puma until 2027/8

https://www.flightglobal.com/defence/raf-puma-helicopter-fleet-could-soldier-on-until-2028/153340.article

[na grohmiti]

It will take a while for the replacement to enter service. 5 years isn't that long.

[DeV]

It will take a while for the replacement to enter service. 5 years isn't that long.

absolutely but the first Helis to be replaced under this plan (Bell’s in Cyprus & Brunei) have already been withdrawn and the replacement (New Medium Heli) was due this year

[DeV]

https://twitter.com/gabriel64869839/status/1682176161726492674?s=46&t=AkgweFTsD599sqgWidCthw