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  • Originally posted by DeV View Post

    So we are talking transatlantic capability?

    where does that leave the framework contract (see post 862)?
    It always was going to be an intercontinental range aircraft, a Gulfstream successor.
    It will likely take a few years before any new aircraft enters service so the charter aircraft will still be needed until then.

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    • Why 10 passengers? Why not 20? You are limiting yourself greatly with that minimum.
      For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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      • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
        Why 10 passengers? Why not 20? You are limiting yourself greatly with that minimum.
        Why not circa 130?

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        • Originally posted by DeV View Post

          Why not circa 130?
          Thats a whole other story, but yes.
          For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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          • Originally posted by DeV View Post

            Why not circa 130?
            That's a lot of space for 10 passengers
            Don't spit in my Bouillabaisse .

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            • Is the tender for a new aircraft only or will used aircraft be considered (thereby ensuring earlier delivery)?

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              • Originally posted by Laners View Post

                That's a lot of space for 10 passengers
                Just out of curiosity, What was the total staffers that went out with the Taoiseach and the three government ministers to South Korea? That should set the benchmark for the Minimum requirements for a Ministerial Transport Mission. As for the 130 considering that everything thing of late is "Multi-Role" then that should be the Absolute Minimum for a Troop Transport Mission, on what should be called a "Strategic Transport Aircraft" and not "The Government Jet" .
                It was the year of fire...the year of destruction...the year we took back what was ours.
                It was the year of rebirth...the year of great sadness...the year of pain...and the year of joy.
                It was a new age...It was the end of history.
                It was the year everything changed.

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                • Originally posted by CTU View Post

                  Just out of curiosity, What was the total staffers that went out with the Taoiseach and the three government ministers to South Korea? That should set the benchmark for the Minimum requirements for a Ministerial Transport Mission. As for the 130 considering that everything thing of late is "Multi-Role" then that should be the Absolute Minimum for a Troop Transport Mission, on what should be called a "Strategic Transport Aircraft" and not "The Government Jet" .
                  Plus potential Irish businesses and/or groups (eg Bord Bia, IntertradeIreland, etc)

                  then look at the trip to the Middle East, I assume with a security detail

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                  • Going from the recent FOI regarding replacement aircraft, it looks like 6-8 staff seems to be the normal entourage, including minister. I would imagine security detail travel separately, be there when VIP arrives, ensure they get back on transport safely. Unless they are travelling by scheduled aircraft, protection detail has no role aboard Air Corps or Chartered aircraft.
                    For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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                    • Originally posted by CTU View Post

                      Just out of curiosity, What was the total staffers that went out with the Taoiseach and the three government ministers to South Korea? That should set the benchmark for the Minimum requirements for a Ministerial Transport Mission. As for the 130 considering that everything thing of late is "Multi-Role" then that should be the Absolute Minimum for a Troop Transport Mission, on what should be called a "Strategic Transport Aircraft" and not "The Government Jet" .
                      Even in earlier MATS days, it was common to fill a 125 or King Air or Gulfie and the crew would fly a second trip if the legs were relatively short. Remember also, that the steward takes up one seat and even the GIV could have 2, so 8 to 10 for Minister and flunkies. All absolutely essential, of course.

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                      • I assume they're looking at a G400?

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                        • The tender has been modified to reduce the range to no less than 3,500 nautical miles.

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                          • I hate the new Etenders site. Impossible to navigate.

                            Description: This is a Call for Tender for the supply to the Irish Air Corps of a new Jet Aircraft for Ministerial Air Transport and Broader Utility Use. The Irish Air Corps (IAC) is the air component of the Defence Forces of Ireland. Through a fleet of fixed and rotary wing aircraft, it provides support to the Army and Naval Service, together with air services such as police air support, air ambulance, fisheries protection and MATS. The Minister for Defence invites requests to participate from economic operators for the supply of one new jet aircraft to be operated by the IAC with a basic minimum of two engines and an Auxiliary Power Unit (APU), a passenger seating capacity of no less than 10 seats, an unrefuelled range of no less than 4,000 nautical miles with a payload equivalent of 8 passengers with standard luggage, and the capability of being fitted with a Defensive Aid Suite (DAS) and secure digital communications. Basic services to include associated crew training to include pilots, flight attendants and maintenance personnel and a maintenance support contract to include airframe, engines, APU and avionics. The aircraft will primarily be for the delivery of the Ministerial Air Transport Service with additional broader utility to include but not limited to: non-combatant evacuation operations of Irish citizens from critical situations in limited instances, medical evacuation or repatriation of Irish Defence Forces personnel deployed on overseas missions, logistics support for transport of sensitive material/resupplies to Defence Forces overseas missions, and air ambulance patient transfers.
                            It's the least specific government tender I've ever seen. Compare for example the RFT for the Naval Motor launches that specified the wattage of the internal lighting, and the necessary navaids.
                            For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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                            • €45m is the figure mentioned, assuming a new aircraft what will that buy?
                              And could you buy a used A320 or similar for that kind of money?

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                              • Originally posted by Tempest View Post
                                €45m is the figure mentioned, assuming a new aircraft what will that buy?
                                And could you buy a used A320 or similar for that kind of money?
                                "New" is specified.
                                Its a Biz Jet, some are saying one of the Dassault Falcon retails for around €35m.
                                For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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