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New Scorpion Fighter Jet Finally Within IAC Budget Perhaps

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  • New Scorpion Fighter Jet Finally Within IAC Budget Perhaps

    http://www.bbc.com/news/business-28260781

    "When you arise in the morning, think of what a precious privilege it is to be alive - to breathe, to think, to enjoy, to love."


    Marcus Aurelius Roman Emperor (161 to 180 A.D.)

  • #2
    Last year's news. It still has not got a customer, no matter how good it claims to be.
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by na grohmití View Post
      Last year's news. It still has not got a customer, no matter how good it claims to be.

      It's only been a year or so since it was unveiled at the Farnborough Air Show so the manufacturer isn't panicking at all and appears to be quietly confident that orders will eventually start to come in sooner than later. It appears there is both national (US) and international interest in this aircraft.

      http://www.defensenews.com/story/def...omer/70678136/

      "When you arise in the morning, think of what a precious privilege it is to be alive - to breathe, to think, to enjoy, to love."


      Marcus Aurelius Roman Emperor (161 to 180 A.D.)

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      • #4
        i think it has a role, however i don't see how - given the Irish budgets' requirement that anything you buy has to cover all roles - it could be your jack-of-all-trades when it can't do air intercept.

        i can see something of this type/performance being very useful in providing ISR, overwatch and CAS on operations across sub-saharan Africa, however there's an argument - a good one - that given constricted budgets and the price of high end stuff like Typhoon/F-35/AH-64, anything you buy has to be able to do everything you do (if you buy, maintain, support, pilot etc.. an aircraft, the initial price of which is only a fraction of its through life costs, then it has to be able to go up against a Russian SU-35 over the Baltic, shepherd wayward passenger jets into Stanstead, and drop PGM's on $5000 Toyota's in Libya...
        Last edited by ropebag; 16 June 2015, 08:10.

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        • #5
          Unless it can carry a minister, it won't be bought...
          'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
          'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
          Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
          He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
          http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

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          • #6
            Here is another possible player into the market, early days.

            The Dart., a possible Hawk replacement for the RAF.

            http://aerosociety.com/News/Insight-...-Show-Day-Zero
            Last edited by Helihead; 16 June 2015, 14:05.

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            • #7
              [QUOTE=ropebag;428571] " i think it has a role, however i don't see how - given the Irish budgets' requirement that anything you buy has to cover all roles - it could be your jack-of-all-trades when it can't do air intercept"....."then it has to be able to go up against a Russian SU-35 over the Baltic"

              Can it "patrol/intercept" above Irish Airspace? Could it "show off" a missile to a Bear or other overflying aircraft in peacetime? EEZ protection? If so I'd like 6 please.

              We don't need aircraft to fight SU-35s......If the Russians come we can fight them from the "long grass" as is our tradition.Click image for larger version

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              • #8
                [QUOTE=Galloglass;428588]
                Originally posted by ropebag View Post
                " i think it has a role, however i don't see how - given the Irish budgets' requirement that anything you buy has to cover all roles - it could be your jack-of-all-trades when it can't do air intercept"....."then it has to be able to go up against a Russian SU-35 over the Baltic"

                Can it "patrol/intercept" above Irish Airspace? Could it "show off" a missile to a Bear or other overflying aircraft in peacetime? EEZ protection? If so I'd like 6 please.

                We don't need aircraft to fight SU-35s......If the Russians come we can fight them from the "long grass" as is our tradition.[ATTACH]7993[/ATTACH]
                I remember looking at the scorpion before, Apparently at the configuration mentioned at $20m, it doesnt have the engines to allow it intercept the Bears, which, eventhough they're Prop driven, hold, or at least did hold some speed records.So, once you hear the bear is somewhere north of Donegal, you scramble your scorpions, send them to a point somewhere off the Kerry coast, the Russians are already flying somewhere parallel to the French coastline.OK, you could park the QRA in Shannon, and you might actually have the lads actually see the Russkis, but you cant keep up with them if they put the boot down.
                The other thing to remember is that although the current issues revolve around the Tu-95s which the Russians seem to be using as pathfinders,If the Russians deployed the TU-160 behind them, then your Scorps will hardly see them.

                Now, you can upgrade the engines, however the upgrade path that was mentioned seems to double the price, ie $40m, and bear in mind you havent even added a peashooter yet. So take a fully kitted out and up-engined Scorp, with a few Missiles added, and you're heading toward $50/$60 Million, and for that money you'd get a decent interceptor and not a tarted up mudfighter .
                Last edited by Herald; 16 June 2015, 19:10.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Galloglass View Post
                  ...Can it "patrol/intercept" above Irish Airspace? Could it "show off" a missile to a Bear or other overflying aircraft in peacetime? EEZ protection? If so I'd like 6 please....
                  like the man says, it couldn't keep up with a BEAR, let alone catch one. it also couldn't keep up with a bog-standard commercial airliner, let alone catch one...

                  when RAF Tornado F3's used to intercept BEAR's tootling along at 35,000ft+, they'd have to light one of their afterburners up at regular intervals to keep up with the unwelcome guest. when Vlad the Invader sends his sleak and shiny BLACKJACKS down the Irish coast (as he does..), an RAF Typhoon would have to be a full chat to keep up with him.

                  a BLACKJACK would go past a Scorpian so fast it might not see it, let alone any missiles it was carrying...

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Helihead View Post
                    Here is another possible player into the market, early days.

                    The Dart., a possible Hawk replacement for the RAF.

                    http://aerosociety.com/News/Insight-...-Show-Day-Zero
                    If we were ever to get into fast jets again for the purposes of actually enforcing our airspace, why go with something that's underdevelopment, there are plenty of either 4.5 gen fighters (where the manufacturers are VERY keen on orders), or second hand ones of proven spec. Don't see why we'd go for trainer types that wouldn't be able to do the job.

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                    • #11
                      Since we have never had fast jets before......
                      The scorpion strikes me as a modern equivelent of the miles master, a sort of an interim between the harvard and the real military aircraft like the spitfire. We would be wasting time, main issue seems to be the bear, something like 650 kts , don't know how long her fuel would last at that, but they do operate at significent heights, but until you can see 'em...
                      Let's get a proper air search radar first so we can work with the Brits/ yanks first assisting in intercepts, then we can buy some grown up toys when we know how bad the problem is...
                      "We will hold out until our last bullet is spent. Could do with some whiskey"
                      Radio transmission, siege of Jadotville DR Congo. September 1961.
                      Illegitimi non carborundum

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Turkey View Post
                        ...Let's get a proper air search radar first so we can work with the Brits/ yanks first assisting in intercepts, then we can buy some grown up toys when we know how bad the problem is...
                        that would be my view, put up a radar chain from Donegal to Cork, integrate it into the NATO picture and see how that develops. buying a 'fighter' that you know from day one isn't going to do the deed is a bit daft: buy cheap, buy twice...

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                        • #13
                          No point having fighters you can't put up (or don't know when to)

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                          • #14
                            Jet light attack/interceptor

                            Originally posted by Helihead View Post
                            Here is another possible player into the market, early days.

                            The Dart., a possible Hawk replacement for the RAF.

                            http://aerosociety.com/News/Insight-...-Show-Day-Zero
                            How about the m346 Master 1000+kph, endurance up to 4 hours with tanks. Israeli's and yanks are interested. The Italians have a version, must be a runner, no afterburners, but still fast enough for Tupolov visits.

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                            • #15
                              It lacks radar and the speed to catch a Bear in anything but a head on intercept.

                              There is only one real contender. It's Swedish, available for lease right away and just had a minor radar update that doubles its range. For roughly €65m per anum you get a fleet of 12 Mach 2 capable jets, 20 pilots trained to operate it. All maintenance and upgrades. An evolving, credible solution.
                              Last edited by Jetjock; 19 June 2015, 21:48.

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