Defending the Irish airspace

[Anzac BQMS Find all posts View Profile Close Anzac]

Other part of it is do we need true 24/7 QRA at the traditional 5-15 mins response time?

could be argued we don’t

we need an air policing capability for high profile events (eg EU summits, VIP visits, etc) in which case QRA could be stood up for the duration

any Russian aircraft we should get about 60 mins notice of a Russian AF approaching Irish controlled airspace

the unpredictable threat is probably the greatest - terrorism / civil aviation (eg non responsive aircraft) or a little green men type situation

It is really hard to sustain that tempo. Even the JASDF with 225 fighters across seven fighter wings and say they are flagging after a few years of PLA(AF) intrusions into their AIDZ's. Tough work because you need to have a pair and a spare with pilots always ready.

[DeV Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close DeV]

It is really hard to sustain that tempo. Even the JASDF with 225 fighters across seven fighter wings and say they are flagging after a few years of PLA(AF) intrusions into their AIDZ's. Tough work because you need to have a pair and a spare with pilots always ready.

But how many QRA bases are they sustaining ?

[DeV Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close DeV]

Most EU QRA launches are not to intercept a Russian Bear or similar, the majority are for non-responding civil aircraft, these do not have the 60 minutes warning. It could even be argued that 15minutes for such cases is too long.

True

[EUFighter Colonel Find all posts View Profile Close EUFighter]

Most EU QRA launches are not to intercept a Russian Bear or similar, the majority are for non-responding civil aircraft, these do not have the 60 minutes warning. It could even be argued that 15minutes for such cases is too long.

[DeV Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close DeV]

The issue of course being the range at which an intercept may need to take place in Irish controlled air

[pilatus Recruit Find all posts View Profile Close pilatus]

Regarding a radar capability, would it be an option to discuss putting in place a data link with the British and share their radar data with us and we contribute a certain percentage/sum for it's maintenance every year? Or ask that Irish personel be trained in the UK and then base said staff in the UK working alongside the British but monitoring Irish airspace. If the RAF are already allegedly providing a QRA to cover our airspace which means they are also monitoring it 24/7, it may not be that much of a stretch?

[DeV Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close DeV]

Regarding a radar capability, would it be an option to discuss putting in place a data link with the British and share their radar data with us and we contribute a certain percentage/sum for it's maintenance every year? Or ask that Irish personel be trained in the UK and then base said staff in the UK working alongside the British but monitoring Irish airspace. If the RAF are already allegedly providing a QRA to cover our airspace which means they are also monitoring it 24/7, it may not be that much of a stretch?

I assume that although they would have radar coverage over the East coast there would be little over the rest of the country

[CTU Captain Find all posts View Profile Close CTU]

I assume that although they would have radar coverage over the East coast there would be little over the rest of the country

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eh44fMwX...jpg&name=large

Picture showing RAF radar "coverage" over Ireland and Atlantic, possibly achieved through military primary (RRH Benbecula & RRH Portreath?) mixed with civilian secondary, through Eurocontrol.

https://twitter.com/RAFLossiemouth/s...45513308168192

[DeV Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close DeV]

Remember reading a U.K. guide to the RAF in the 90s that said Mount Gabriel provided “low level climb out data” to the RAF

[Anzac BQMS Find all posts View Profile Close Anzac]

But how many QRA bases are they sustaining ?

QRA was flown from 4 JASDF bases a few years ago. I assume it is still the same.

[EUFighter Colonel Find all posts View Profile Close EUFighter]

On the point of Supersonic/Transonic.. most scrambles for loss comms on civil-aircraft would be heading west-east, and for the odd Russian activity, if set up properly, should get notice from "partner nations", so could supersonic requirements be classed as preferred, but not necessarily required???

The basic trainer aircraft has done supersonic tests during development, and I am sure I read not to long ago (can't seem to find the source at the moment) that the M-346 engines (Honeywell/ITEC F124), are restricted to 80% Max power. There is an afterburner version of the engines (F125), so could it be possible that Leonardo could eventually upgrade the engines on the "FA" version, which, while believed to be ordered by an "unnamed "country, is technically still under development.

Sorry but it does not work like that, putting F125's into the M346 airframe will not make it a supersonic aircraft. While power will be necessary for a correctly designed supersonic aircraft adding more power to what is basically a high subsonic aerodynamic design will not do that job. Just look at the KAI T-50, same engine as the JAS 39C and lower weight but cannot reach Mach 2. The faster you go the much more power you need unless you have a good supersonic design. That is not to say that most high speed aircraft will not supersonic, even some piston fighters in a dive managed that but they were not controllable.

The M346 may have a Vne of Mach 1.2 but that does not mean it has been designed to fly near that speed.

[Silver Sqdn. Ldr Find all posts View Profile Close Silver]

I see that Leonardo are sending a M-346 to display at Bray airshow in July. Are they pitching for sales to the DoD??

While it looks like a good aircraft on the face of it, if we are going down the trainer / LIFT aircraft route, the KAI FA-50 makes more sense when price and (especially!) speed are taken into consideration -

M-346 - top speed 1,034 kmph
FA-50 - top speed 1,800 kmph

[Jaque'ammer C/S Find all posts View Profile Close Jaque'ammer]

I see that Lenardo are sending a M-346 to display at Bray airshow in July. Are they pitching for sales to the DoD??

While it looks like a good aircraft on the face of it, if we are going down the trainer / LIFT aircraft route, the KAI FA-50 makes more sense when price and (especially!) speed are taken into consideration -

M-346 - top speed 1,034 kmph
FA-50 - top speed 1,800 kmph

They were in their submission to the CoDF

[na grohmiti Commander in Chief Find all posts View Profile Close na grohmiti]

I see that Lenardo are sending a M-346 to display at Bray airshow in July. Are they pitching for sales to the DoD??

While it looks like a good aircraft on the face of it, if we are going down the trainer / LIFT aircraft route, the KAI FA-50 makes more sense when price and (especially!) speed are taken into consideration -

M-346 - top speed 1,034 kmph
FA-50 - top speed 1,800 kmph

What are you basing your prices on? We can do LIFT on a PC21.
Unless you can do Mach 2 you can't do air policing. We've been over this.

[Silver Sqdn. Ldr Find all posts View Profile Close Silver]

They were in their submission to the CoDF

Correct