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  • Originally posted by DeV View Post
    Other part of it is do we need true 24/7 QRA at the traditional 5-15 mins response time?

    could be argued we don’t

    we need an air policing capability for high profile events (eg EU summits, VIP visits, etc) in which case QRA could be stood up for the duration

    any Russian aircraft we should get about 60 mins notice of a Russian AF approaching Irish controlled airspace

    the unpredictable threat is probably the greatest - terrorism / civil aviation (eg non responsive aircraft) or a little green men type situation
    It is really hard to sustain that tempo. Even the JASDF with 225 fighters across seven fighter wings and say they are flagging after a few years of PLA(AF) intrusions into their AIDZ's. Tough work because you need to have a pair and a spare with pilots always ready.

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    • Originally posted by Anzac View Post

      It is really hard to sustain that tempo. Even the JASDF with 225 fighters across seven fighter wings and say they are flagging after a few years of PLA(AF) intrusions into their AIDZ's. Tough work because you need to have a pair and a spare with pilots always ready.
      But how many QRA bases are they sustaining ?

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      • Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
        Most EU QRA launches are not to intercept a Russian Bear or similar, the majority are for non-responding civil aircraft, these do not have the 60 minutes warning. It could even be argued that 15minutes for such cases is too long.
        True

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        • Most EU QRA launches are not to intercept a Russian Bear or similar, the majority are for non-responding civil aircraft, these do not have the 60 minutes warning. It could even be argued that 15minutes for such cases is too long.

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          • The issue of course being the range at which an intercept may need to take place in Irish controlled air

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            • Regarding a radar capability, would it be an option to discuss putting in place a data link with the British and share their radar data with us and we contribute a certain percentage/sum for it's maintenance every year? Or ask that Irish personel be trained in the UK and then base said staff in the UK working alongside the British but monitoring Irish airspace. If the RAF are already allegedly providing a QRA to cover our airspace which means they are also monitoring it 24/7, it may not be that much of a stretch?

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              • Originally posted by pilatus View Post
                Regarding a radar capability, would it be an option to discuss putting in place a data link with the British and share their radar data with us and we contribute a certain percentage/sum for it's maintenance every year? Or ask that Irish personel be trained in the UK and then base said staff in the UK working alongside the British but monitoring Irish airspace. If the RAF are already allegedly providing a QRA to cover our airspace which means they are also monitoring it 24/7, it may not be that much of a stretch?
                I assume that although they would have radar coverage over the East coast there would be little over the rest of the country

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                • Originally posted by DeV View Post

                  I assume that although they would have radar coverage over the East coast there would be little over the rest of the country
                  https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eh44fMwX...jpg&name=large

                  Picture showing RAF radar "coverage" over Ireland and Atlantic, possibly achieved through military primary (RRH Benbecula & RRH Portreath?) mixed with civilian secondary, through Eurocontrol.

                  https://twitter.com/RAFLossiemouth/s...45513308168192
                  Last edited by CTU; 2 April 2022, 20:47.
                  It was the year of fire...the year of destruction...the year we took back what was ours.
                  It was the year of rebirth...the year of great sadness...the year of pain...and the year of joy.
                  It was a new age...It was the end of history.
                  It was the year everything changed.

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                  • Remember reading a U.K. guide to the RAF in the 90s that said Mount Gabriel provided “low level climb out data” to the RAF

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                    • Originally posted by DeV View Post

                      But how many QRA bases are they sustaining ?
                      QRA was flown from 4 JASDF bases a few years ago. I assume it is still the same.

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                      • Originally posted by CTU View Post

                        On the point of Supersonic/Transonic.. most scrambles for loss comms on civil-aircraft would be heading west-east, and for the odd Russian activity, if set up properly, should get notice from "partner nations", so could supersonic requirements be classed as preferred, but not necessarily required???

                        The basic trainer aircraft has done supersonic tests during development, and I am sure I read not to long ago (can't seem to find the source at the moment) that the M-346 engines (Honeywell/ITEC F124), are restricted to 80% Max power. There is an afterburner version of the engines (F125), so could it be possible that Leonardo could eventually upgrade the engines on the "FA" version, which, while believed to be ordered by an "unnamed "country, is technically still under development.
                        Sorry but it does not work like that, putting F125's into the M346 airframe will not make it a supersonic aircraft. While power will be necessary for a correctly designed supersonic aircraft adding more power to what is basically a high subsonic aerodynamic design will not do that job. Just look at the KAI T-50, same engine as the JAS 39C and lower weight but cannot reach Mach 2. The faster you go the much more power you need unless you have a good supersonic design. That is not to say that most high speed aircraft will not supersonic, even some piston fighters in a dive managed that but they were not controllable.

                        The M346 may have a Vne of Mach 1.2 but that does not mean it has been designed to fly near that speed.

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                        • I see that Leonardo are sending a M-346 to display at Bray airshow in July. Are they pitching for sales to the DoD??

                          While it looks like a good aircraft on the face of it, if we are going down the trainer / LIFT aircraft route, the KAI FA-50 makes more sense when price and (especially!) speed are taken into consideration -

                          M-346 - top speed 1,034 kmph
                          FA-50 - top speed 1,800 kmph
                          Silver
                          Sqdn. Ldr
                          Last edited by Silver; 4 April 2022, 15:11.
                          IRISH AIR CORPS - Serving the Nation.

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                          • Originally posted by Silver View Post
                            I see that Lenardo are sending a M-346 to display at Bray airshow in July. Are they pitching for sales to the DoD??

                            While it looks like a good aircraft on the face of it, if we are going down the trainer / LIFT aircraft route, the KAI FA-50 makes more sense when price and (especially!) speed are taken into consideration -

                            M-346 - top speed 1,034 kmph
                            FA-50 - top speed 1,800 kmph
                            They were in their submission to the CoDF

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                            • Originally posted by Silver View Post
                              I see that Lenardo are sending a M-346 to display at Bray airshow in July. Are they pitching for sales to the DoD??

                              While it looks like a good aircraft on the face of it, if we are going down the trainer / LIFT aircraft route, the KAI FA-50 makes more sense when price and (especially!) speed are taken into consideration -

                              M-346 - top speed 1,034 kmph
                              FA-50 - top speed 1,800 kmph
                              What are you basing your prices on? We can do LIFT on a PC21.
                              Unless you can do Mach 2 you can't do air policing. We've been over this.
                              For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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                              • Originally posted by Jaque'ammer View Post

                                They were in their submission to the CoDF
                                Correct
                                IRISH AIR CORPS - Serving the Nation.

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