Defending the Irish airspace

[na grohmiti Commander in Chief Find all posts View Profile Close na grohmiti]

Talk that Primary radar is very close.

[Chico Corporal Find all posts View Profile Close Chico]

Talk that Primary radar is very close.

Been hearing this since 2016

[apc Sergeant Major Find all posts View Profile Close apc]

Talk that Primary radar is very close.

Any idea what primary radar they are looking at

[na grohmiti Commander in Chief Find all posts View Profile Close na grohmiti]

Any idea what primary radar they are looking at

Not that close.

[GoneToTheCanner C/S Find all posts View Profile Close GoneToTheCanner]

And you can be guaranteed, any contracts signed will have Iron clad, training for both Aviators and technicians, ample supply of spares inbuilt, otherwise the Dept Procurement team are useless.

In fairness to the Air Corps, the quality and quantity of training for techs improved considerably once the Pilatus era started. Prior to that, it could best be described as "patchy", in that it often depended on the whim of senior unit staff but enough people gripped the situation and made sure that enough of the core levels of manpower got the essential training. At least now, the concept of not having the right training for the right people is regarded as untenable by the organisation, instead of it being a given.

[Jaque'ammer C/S Find all posts View Profile Close Jaque'ammer]

Any idea what primary radar they are looking at

Presumably a tender will be published. I'm sure the AC know exactly what they want

[na grohmiti Commander in Chief Find all posts View Profile Close na grohmiti]

Presumably a tender will be published. I'm sure the AC know exactly what they want

The IAA have been beating down their door about it for quite a while.
https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j...fv-CCUeDENFjtG
Joint Committee on Transport and Communications debate - Wednesday, 2 Feb 2022 (oireachtas.ie)

[Jaque'ammer C/S Find all posts View Profile Close Jaque'ammer]

The IAA have been beating down their door about it for quite a while.
https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j...fv-CCUeDENFjtG
Joint Committee on Transport and Communications debate - Wednesday, 2 Feb 2022 (oireachtas.ie)

Pity the interesting stuff is blacked out.

The figure out 200 mill for radar upgrades is much higher than I would have guessed. But it seems to me that Kearney isn't too fussed about having that capability?

[na grohmiti Commander in Chief Find all posts View Profile Close na grohmiti]

Not his gig, clearly, their tools work fine for the work they need them for, but without expressly saying so, without the RAF telling us what was coming, the IAA would have no idea about an aircraft without a pinging transponder operating near or in Irish controlled, or even sovereign airspace. Everything is either going east or west. The East bound are monitored from when they leave US or Canadian airspace. If they suddenly vanish at that point its all hands on deck anyway. The West bound are well controlled leaving mainland and northern Europe, with its layered Air Defence radar.
The weakness is, something coming up from the Azores, or south from the Arctic, that has managed to evade NATO monitoring. We are assuming NATO will always be there to watch our approaches from the north..
Indeed, unsurprisingly certain members of the committee once they realised the RAF aircraft had at all times avoided sovereign airspace, seemed to lose interest in the need for primary radar, or any other sort of monitoring for that matter.
How things have changed in a month or two.

[CTU Captain Find all posts View Profile Close CTU]

The IAA have been beating down their door about it for quite a while...
Joint Committee on Transport and Communications debate - Wednesday, 2 Feb 2022 (oireachtas.ie)

Thanks for that.

Based on my reading of the committee evidence from IAA, Irish "Controled" Airspace is made up of

• Shannon FIR, for which Ireland is responsible for Regulation and Air Navaigation Services, currently IAA but soon to be split Between IAA (Regulation) and AirNav Ireland (Air Navigation Services)
• NOTA and SOTA, which is classed as "High Seas Airspace" under the responsibility of the UK (CAA/NATS) who have deligated Air Navigation Services to IAA (soon to be AirNav Ireland).

[CTU Captain Find all posts View Profile Close CTU]

Not his gig, clearly, their tools work fine for the work they need them for, but without expressly saying so, without the RAF telling us what was coming, the IAA would have no idea about an aircraft without a pinging transponder operating near or in Irish controlled, or even sovereign airspace. Everything is either going east or west. The East bound are monitored from when they leave US or Canadian airspace. If they suddenly vanish at that point its all hands on deck anyway. The West bound are well controlled leaving mainland and northern Europe, with its layered Air Defence radar.
The weakness is, something coming up from the Azores, or south from the Arctic, that has managed to evade NATO monitoring. We are assuming NATO will always be there to watch our approaches from the north..
Indeed, unsurprisingly certain members of the committee once they realised the RAF aircraft had at all times avoided sovereign airspace, seemed to lose interest in the need for primary radar, or any other sort of monitoring for that matter.
How things have changed in a month or two.

I was surprised by that.

Reading between the lines it looked to me like another case of "Not my Job" and the IAA (or AirNav Ireland) are only interested in Civil Traffic and don't care about Military Aviation. Expect the big boys to play by the rules of the playground at all times and don't think they would risk civil aircraft, ignoring the numerous incidents around the world were Military activities have had affects on Civil Aircraft (in some cases Tragically leading to lose of Life), and don't seem to care that if the Rules aren't being followed in their area of responsibility they wouldn't know unless it's too late, as the consequences would be for someone else to deal with (Dept's of Transport, Foreign Affairs and Defence in the Shannon FIR & UK Govt/CAA/RAF for NOTA and SOTA).

[na grohmiti Commander in Chief Find all posts View Profile Close na grohmiti]

The attached Document explains it clearly (as provided to the house on the date above).
2022-02-02_opening-statement-peter-kearney-ceo-irish-aviation-authority-iaa_en.pdf (oireachtas.ie)

[apc Sergeant Major Find all posts View Profile Close apc]

Seeing that most of the above is not our sovereign airspace, what are we looking at in respect of the need for MACH 2 QRA. Can aircraft legally fly outside our Airspace without transponders, flight plans etc.

[DeV Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close DeV]

Seeing that most of the above is not our sovereign airspace, what are we looking at in respect of the need for MACH 2 QRA. Can aircraft legally fly outside our Airspace without transponders, flight plans etc.

They can but they can be considered a hazard to navigation if out of ATC contact

[na grohmiti Commander in Chief Find all posts View Profile Close na grohmiti]

Seeing that most of the above is not our sovereign airspace, what are we looking at in respect of the need for MACH 2 QRA. Can aircraft legally fly outside our Airspace without transponders, flight plans etc.

Read the dail debate in the link above. All your questions have been answered there using small words so our elected representatives can understand.