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  • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post

    We have to get the Air Corps out of Dublin first though... They are all very fond of those blue railings.
    There is a difference between moving the AC and dispersal they are extremely different things

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    • Originally posted by DeV View Post

      There is a difference between moving the AC and dispersal they are extremely different things
      Is there?????
      Are you SURE?
      For now, everything hangs on the CoDF report, which is published, but after discussion with parties in government will probably commence being implemented in May or June... or July.. hopefully

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      • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post

        Is there?????
        Are you SURE?
        Yes

        1 you are potentially talking about moving house and the other you are talking about surviving an air/missile attack

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        • Would it not be easier to disperse from a more central airbase, instead of one hemmed in by industry and private residences on all sides? Let alone the elephant in the room, that the runway is too short.
          If we aren't going to have more than one Air Corps Location, could we not at least have somewhere with more space?
          For now, everything hangs on the CoDF report, which is published, but after discussion with parties in government will probably commence being implemented in May or June... or July.. hopefully

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          • I would give a left nut to see the Donners practise "road runway" operations like the Finns and Swedes do. Gripens are absolutely designed with that in mind and our lovely expensive motorway network is ideal for it. Multiple stretches are easily greater than 800m in a straight line. Certainly, in many of them, you could easily land a PC-12, not to mind a PC-9.

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            • https://getpocket.com/explore/item/t......there's always this guy!

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              • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                Would it not be easier to disperse from a more central airbase, instead of one hemmed in by industry and private residences on all sides? Let alone the elephant in the room, that the runway is too short.
                If we aren't going to have more than one Air Corps Location, could we not at least have somewhere with more space?
                1828 metres

                so about 1000 metres longer than required for PC12 and Gripen

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                • I'm thinking of other, larger, laden transport aircraft.
                  For now, everything hangs on the CoDF report, which is published, but after discussion with parties in government will probably commence being implemented in May or June... or July.. hopefully

                  Comment


                  • On the point of from where to operate any QRA fast jet, Shannon is the best choice, it has plenty of space around it that can be zoned for future military use and the runways once cleared of parked Russian aircraft make it the most flexible option currently available. Operating a joint base also means that things like airport services are eased. A good example of such an operation is Brussels where the north of the airport is the main transport based for the Belgian armed forces.

                    As for dispersed operations the dispersed site are not the limiting factor but the ground equipment and the regular training on those sites. Back in the day when a new motorway was completed in a NATO country the first wheel to speed along the new asphalt were usually those of jets doing dispersed operations before the motorway was opened to the public. This limited the ability of NATO countries to practice dispersed ops. The Swedes and Finns have special section of roads combined with a very low population density which means they can practice this often. For us we have enough low utilisation regional airports that could stand in for a yearly training detachment.

                    As for what aircraft and when, the CoD report was pre-Feb 24 and that day changed a lot in terms of level and dateline. It would be worthwhile having the Commission look at their report again in light of what is now the new security reality in Europe. LOA 4 might now be needed and faster than expected. But we are nearing the production end of many possible contenders, the Gripen missed out in Finland and Switzerland so is not likely to be in production post 2030. Even the F16 will not continue to be produced by the end of this decade. So that leaves the F-35, which while it may have a much reduced fly-away price the running costs remain extremely high. On the outside could be the Korean KF-21 which will be in full production by the end of the decade and is likely to be available into the 2030's.

                    So it would be go in the next year or two with and Gripen/F16 order or wait a little and go for the KF-21. Options like the new Tempest or FCAS will not be available until well in the 2040's unless something seriously changes.

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                    • We could look at older Grippens until such time as their stealth follow on is available, then there would be more E/F available, or jump in with two feet with the Korean guys, take the FA-50 as intermediate Jet trainer until the KF-21 is available, but look at the full package, as we also have to replace/increase the medium lift Helio's so look at also taking the KUH-1 & LAH, it would mean being the first in Europe though.
                      "Why am I using a new putter? Because the last one didn't float too well." -Craig Stadler

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                      • Be under absolute no illusions there is still massive work to do to get Newbridge to sign up to even LOA1

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                        • The only older Gripen available are the SAAF ones, Hungary just bought theirs, Sweden are upgrading their C/D to have similar on-board sensor fit to E/F while they wait for E/F delivery. They have re activated reserve Gripen squadrons, previously where aircraft for leasing came from..

                          The KAI advanced trainer is a red herring. Only 12 or so versions of the light fighter version exist.
                          ​​​​​It doesn't matter that there are more trainer or light attack versions operating, they are irrelevant for our needs. It is not approved for anything but short range AA missiles. They need an export customer to cover the cost of AMRAAM certification and approval.
                          we haven't the time to be someone else's testbed.
                          For now, everything hangs on the CoDF report, which is published, but after discussion with parties in government will probably commence being implemented in May or June... or July.. hopefully

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                          • correct. We are too small to play "test house" for a hugely wealthy Korean company. We've been bitten before...

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                            • So lets look at the PC9M for basis flight and arms training, moving onto the Boeing T7A, then the Grippen or Raphel (Pie in the sky I now), but this does not negate the need for a full spectrum Radar, and also Missiles as it needs to be a wide rangin approach to secure our skies.
                              "Why am I using a new putter? Because the last one didn't float too well." -Craig Stadler

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                              • Originally posted by gaff85 View Post
                                So lets look at the PC9M for basis flight and arms training, moving onto the Boeing T7A, then the Grippen or Raphel (Pie in the sky I now), but this does not negate the need for a full spectrum Radar, and also Missiles as it needs to be a wide rangin approach to secure our skies.
                                Never, ever buy the Mk.1 of anything. The Yanks have deep pockets. Let them find and pay for fixing the flaws of the T7 before we have to. At least the Gripen is a mature platform that our people copuld easily adapt to, in fairly short order.

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