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Defending the Irish airspace

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  • Lockheed Martin has now stopped sand bagging KAI with respect to the FA-50's development even beyond Block 20 with a revised MOU signed a few weeks back. Two things have moved this along 1. Ukraine and 2. LM have a pretty full order book for both the F-16V Block 70/72 in both new builds and upgrades for the next few years plus the F-35 is dominating in the tier 1 fighter space sales wise, thus the legitimate fear that a souped up FA-50 will hurt Viper sales is not such a big concern now.

    There is also speculation that Raytheons new PhantomStrike AESA GaN radar or their APG-79(V)4 AESA radar be an option available for future FA-50 customers from 2025 and that the proposed variant for the USN's Tactical Surrogate Aircraft programme will have the F414 engine instead of the F404 as it will offer sustainment commonality with their current Rhino and Growler fleets.

    ​​​​​​https://www.raytheonintelligenceands.../phantomstrike

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    • I found this interesting, from an Irish viewpoint.
      The Larger militaries are struggling to operate an all arms air arm. They have realised (watching the russian experience) that having lots of specialised aircraft for multitudes of roles is pointless unless your crews and technicians are up to speed and the aircraft are in use. Reducing use to save money impacts serviceability.
      The suggestion is that the larger forces should combine efforts. (NATO/EU Baltic Air Policing, Multinational Heavy Airlift Wing etc) and smaller forces focus on providing a single specialist role, instead of trying to cover all aspects, in the knowledge that when other aspects are needed most, (a) neighbours will support (b) money will become available to purchase the specialised aircraft for the other role. Meanwhile providing a token low-cost option for fighter aircraft, instead of trying to operate the top end versions, considered the most expensive to operate and the most complex to maintain.

      The original interview in question.

      For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post


        I found this interesting, from an Irish viewpoint.
        The Larger militaries are struggling to operate an all arms air arm. They have realised (watching the russian experience) that having lots of specialised aircraft for multitudes of roles is pointless unless your crews and technicians are up to speed and the aircraft are in use. Reducing use to save money impacts serviceability.
        The suggestion is that the larger forces should combine efforts. (NATO/EU Baltic Air Policing, Multinational Heavy Airlift Wing etc) and smaller forces focus on providing a single specialist role, instead of trying to cover all aspects, in the knowledge that when other aspects are needed most, (a) neighbours will support (b) money will become available to purchase the specialised aircraft for the other role. Meanwhile providing a token low-cost option for fighter aircraft, instead of trying to operate the top end versions, considered the most expensive to operate and the most complex to maintain.

        The original interview in question.

        few things on that:
        - they need to have multi role capability because others will take time to respond to any attack/threat…. Which means in the Baltics they are basically looking at being occupied
        - most NATO nations are also in the EU. While pooling and sharing is being pushed … they need to have capabilities independently of the US, UK & Canada
        - if we look at the UK, they have multi-role aircraft (Typhoon) in multiple squadrons …. The aircraft can be extremely similar but the crews in different squadrons (in some cases) specialise in specific roles (so they aren’t trying to spread 200 hours over many roles)

        Comment


        • It does put the notion that we need the best available type for the Air Policing role in perspective though, don't you think?
          For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

          Comment


          • https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PE6...el=DEEPWEAPONS

            reasons why poland choise FA-50
            Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
              It does put the notion that we need the best available type for the Air Policing role in perspective though, don't you think?
              Yes for me though the question has possibly moved beyond air policing (as in a higher level of capability)

              Comment


              • Originally posted by DeV View Post

                Yes for me though the question has possibly moved beyond air policing (as in a higher level of capability)
                Because of its geographical location the next capability set above air policing is quite obvious in both a national security and European security context - Maritime Strike.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Anzac View Post

                  Because of its geographical location the next capability set above air policing is quite obvious in both a national security and European security context - Maritime Strike.
                  Air Defence
                  Maritime surveillance (including ASW and maritime strike)

                  due to the area we are responsible for (even if based in Shannon) a light fighter/trainer will have extremely limited duration

                  the threat is much higher than previously which also means a move towards fighter capability

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by DeV View Post

                    Air Defence
                    Maritime surveillance (including ASW and maritime strike)

                    due to the area we are responsible for (even if based in Shannon) a light fighter/trainer will have extremely limited duration

                    the threat is much higher than previously which also means a move towards fighter capability
                    How is the threat higher than before?
                    Russian Navy left an oil slick in our EEZ in 2009. Russia Invaded Ukraine in 2014, It shot down an Airliner with a SAM in 2014, their agents were trying to murder others in the UK in 2018. Their Bombers have been appearing off our coast every year without fail. One of their ASW aircraft spent a few hours circling over the Porcupine bight in 2020. We just learn't their agents were studying in Trinners to build up a back story all along.

                    The threat has always been there, we just stopped believing the embassy lies this year.
                    For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post

                      How is the threat higher than before?
                      Russian Navy left an oil slick in our EEZ in 2009. Russia Invaded Ukraine in 2014, It shot down an Airliner with a SAM in 2014, their agents were trying to murder others in the UK in 2018. Their Bombers have been appearing off our coast every year without fail. One of their ASW aircraft spent a few hours circling over the Porcupine bight in 2020. We just learn't their agents were studying in Trinners to build up a back story all along.

                      The threat has always been there, we just stopped believing the embassy lies this year.
                      Agreed but I’d argue the risk is higher

                      Comment


                      • In connected news, Red10 announced in Bray that due to about 30 mins of rain in Baldonnel the Red Arrows can’t take off for safety reasons in case they go off the runway

                        obviously safety is vital and an air display isn’t a live operational air interception but needs to be factored in

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by DeV View Post

                          Agreed but I’d argue the risk is higher
                          Agreed. At present, they are even less concerned than usual about pissing people off. And any action against a non-NATO EU member i s going to send an intimidating message with few sanctions left to be applied by the EU.
                          'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
                          'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
                          Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
                          He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
                          http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Anzac View Post

                            Because of its geographical location the next capability set above air policing is quite obvious in both a national security and European security context - Maritime Strike.
                            If we were to give an aircraft a maritime strike it would be preferable to give this to a more dedicated aircraft such as with the P-8. It need not be the P-8, but is we wanted something faster there is the Saab Swordfish, or the offerings from IAI or Textron. Then we would have a platform to cover anti-ship and ASW capability. For the FA-50 it should be keep for the air policing role at least for the start. When the QUICKSINK modules becomes available for the JDAM this could be added to the FA-50.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by EUFighter View Post

                              If we were to give an aircraft a maritime strike it would be preferable to give this to a more dedicated aircraft such as with the P-8. It need not be the P-8, but is we wanted something faster there is the Saab Swordfish, or the offerings from IAI or Textron. Then we would have a platform to cover anti-ship and ASW capability. For the FA-50 it should be keep for the air policing role at least for the start. When the QUICKSINK modules becomes available for the JDAM this could be added to the FA-50.
                              Given that they haven’t even been delivered… upgrade the C295’s

                              with MAD boom, sonar bouys, torpedoes and possibly anti-ship missiles

                              if we were to buy a multi-role fighter make sure it’s one the CASAs can que anti-ship missiles for

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by DeV View Post

                                Given that they haven’t even been delivered… upgrade the C295’s

                                with MAD boom, sonar bouys, torpedoes and possibly anti-ship missiles

                                if we were to buy a multi-role fighter make sure it’s one the CASAs can que anti-ship missiles for
                                That train has already pulled out of the siding and is running downhill at speed. Too late to back it up and send it back to the shed now.
                                For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                                Comment

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