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  • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
    https://www.defensenews.com/global/a...fighter-fleet/

    Indonesia has decided it wants to buy all Austria's Typhoons, only in service since 2002 (with a huge cloud over the purchase) and a decision made to ground them from this year made in 2017.
    This also removed the political issues that would have arisen had Indonesia gone ahead with its intended purchase of SU 35, from Russia.

    Next question.. what will Austria replace them with? They were one of the last operational users of the Saab Draken.
    Hasn't Austria already announced they were going for lease to avoid holding a new tender? If so and given costs were a factor in their standing down the Typhoons, then I'd say either Gripen or F16's

    Comment


    • There is a lot of discussion on the Austrian forums about the Eurofighter as not only has this letter come out but there is still an ongoing corruption investigation.
      The latter is to do with they got 3 less aircraft and of an earlier tranche than what they originally believed.

      Back to the letter from Indonesia. There Austrians have not yet started to look for a replacement and all the usual types are speculated from F-35, F16 to Grippen. But so far nothing has been started. The only announcement recently was that the Saab 105 jets (that also have a secondary QRA role) will be retired at the end of this year. Then there is the maintenance contract for the Eurofighter which runs out in 2023. As Austria and Airbus are not talking at the moment if nothing happens the Austrian Air Force will cease Eurofighter operations sometime in 2023.

      The last time they had an urgent need to plug the QRA gap they got some F-5's from the Swiss, but I cannot see that happening again.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
        There is a lot of discussion on the Austrian forums about the Eurofighter as not only has this letter come out but there is still an ongoing corruption investigation.
        The latter is to do with they got 3 less aircraft and of an earlier tranche than what they originally believed.

        Back to the letter from Indonesia. There Austrians have not yet started to look for a replacement and all the usual types are speculated from F-35, F16 to Grippen. But so far nothing has been started. The only announcement recently was that the Saab 105 jets (that also have a secondary QRA role) will be retired at the end of this year. Then there is the maintenance contract for the Eurofighter which runs out in 2023. As Austria and Airbus are not talking at the moment if nothing happens the Austrian Air Force will cease Eurofighter operations sometime in 2023.

        The last time they had an urgent need to plug the QRA gap they got some F-5's from the Swiss, but I cannot see that happening again.
        The F5s were leased when the Drakens were retired, while they were waiting for the (Tranche 1) Typhoons.
        A sceptical person would question the Timing of this Indonesian plan, coming so soon after the US announce Indonesia will be the second overseas operator of the V22 Osprey.
        For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
          The F5s were leased when the Drakens were retired, while they were waiting for the (Tranche 1) Typhoons.
          A sceptical person would question the Timing of this Indonesian plan, coming so soon after the US announce Indonesia will be the second overseas operator of the V22 Osprey.
          Maybe, but there is also the strong link between Indonesian Aerospace and Airbus especially the German and Spanish parts. The CN-235 is afterall a joint venture between what was CASA and IPTN.

          But apart from pressure from the US not to buy Russian it might be a ploy for the negotiations with South Korea. The joint venture around the KAI K-FX fighter has not being going well in terms of Indonesian payments. This could be just a ploy to help in the negotiations that are still not finalised.

          Comment


          • I'll add that for Ireland I'd suggest using Mica RF/EM instead of Meteor - 1.2 million vs 2 Million and I don't think we need Meteor's range. Mica apparently is already integrated with Gripen.

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            • Originally posted by Graylion View Post
              I'll add that for Ireland I'd suggest using Mica RF/EM instead of Meteor - 1.2 million vs 2 Million and I don't think we need Meteor's range. Mica apparently is already integrated with Gripen.
              AFAIK it can be integrated but has not been until now and there is a lack of live firing press releases. To date no customer has selected Mica for their aircraft although it is an interesting alternative. Most customers who have a BVR missile have opted for the AIM-120 AMRAAM.

              Due to the system architecture Saab can easily integrate most weapon systems without too much effort. But carriage release qualification would be the biggest part and likely to be billed to the customer.

              Comment


              • AMRAAM is great, but BVR would also be shooting at something in someone else's airspace. WHatever about putting forward the case for the Jets, Like Austria we would struggle to make a case to justify any AIM-120 type missile. It would be easier to make a case for an air launched anti ship missile.
                For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                  AMRAAM is great, but BVR would also be shooting at something in someone else's airspace. WHatever about putting forward the case for the Jets, Like Austria we would struggle to make a case to justify any AIM-120 type missile. It would be easier to make a case for an air launched anti ship missile.
                  My thinking is not so much range as all weather capability when you get into an argument in &^$%&#%@&#@& weather ...

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                  • Nah, weather isn't a problem - modern fighters/IR missiles have fantastic IR detection and display systems - and you can use the radar to designate an IR missile, the issue is range. Particularly when you are operating relatively short range fighters that are doing hot rod QRA fuel burns and you don't have tankers.

                    It's also - and this isn't the first time I've written this - worth thinking a lot harder about not just what capabilities do you need X platform to have in 5 years, but what capabilities might you need it to have in 20 years time. If the AC got Gripens for QRA and ran them happily for ten years, is it really that much of a stretch for an Irish government in 2035 to think about sending them to a UN/EU op? Not having a BVR capability then might look a little short sighted...

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                    • So the debate is over MICA v Meteor v AMRAAM..

                      In the real world the AC only got one extra PC-12 because of Hangers and crew shortage's

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                      • Originally posted by Charlie252 View Post
                        So the debate is over MICA v Meteor v AMRAAM..

                        In the real world the AC only got one extra PC-12 because of Hangers and crew shortage's
                        So what have you got against hovertanks?
                        'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
                        'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
                        Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
                        He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
                        http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Flamingo View Post
                          So what have you got against hovertanks?
                          no sideways traction

                          Comment




                          • Some offbeat suggestions here.
                            For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                              https://youtu.be/srMoZhn4kzI

                              Some offbeat suggestions here.
                              That was ... entertaining

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                                https://youtu.be/srMoZhn4kzI

                                Some offbeat suggestions here.
                                Entertaining as are the comments but nothing really new.

                                Yes the Yanks do have some aircraft in storage and there is a good reason for this, they are old. There are some F-15's stored but the airframes and systems are no so old they have just order new build F-15's to fill their air defence needs.

                                Th JF-17 is a non-starter, it is an aircraft developed for Pakistan due to the US arm blockade. It is not compatible with any western air defence system which an AC aircraft would have to co-operate with. If the road leads to China then why not the J-10? It is a much more modern design and now that they no longer need permission from Russia over its engine they are free to export!

                                As for sub-contracting it to a "private" company this shows a lack of understanding of the legal restrictions.

                                There was no suggestion in the video of joining NATO which would give us full cover or making an alliance with Sweden to get the same. From a cost and technical view the easiest but politically the most difficult routes.

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