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Defending the Irish airspace

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  • Originally posted by Graylion View Post
    How often has the NS pointed a gun at a racacitrant fishing boat or fired a warning shot compared to sinking one? The point is the clearly implied "or else".
    I agree, "Or else" is good.

    I was throwing ideas out there as an alternative to a squadron of interceptors that might be feasible.
    'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
    'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
    Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
    He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
    http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

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    • Originally posted by Sparky42 View Post
      Is that with weapons and fuel tanks hanging off it?
      All figures we get for aircraft performance are in "clean" configuration".
      But just for comparison both the JAS-39A-D's and the T/FA-50 are powered by GE F-404 afterburning engines. That in the T-FA-50 has slightly less power but the aircraft is also lighter.

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      • Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
        All figures we get for aircraft performance are in "clean" configuration".
        But just for comparison both the JAS-39A-D's and the T/FA-50 are powered by GE F-404 afterburning engines. That in the T-FA-50 has slightly less power but the aircraft is also lighter.
        I am not really seeing the point of the TA-50. Not nearly as widespread as the Gripen, and not built by a friend and ally. And not in service yet.

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        • Originally posted by Flamingo View Post
          I agree, "Or else" is good.

          I was throwing ideas out there as an alternative to a squadron of interceptors that might be feasible.
          It was a good question.

          QRAs are launched not just unidentified targets but also to investigate non-responsive targets (Helios jet). Those unidentified targets which can range from a Cessna to a Blackjack.
          So any aircraft that is launched to carryout a visual identification needs to be able to intercept that target which may be at 40,000 ft travelling at 500 kn. This is beyond almost the capabilities of every current business jet, there will be one from Boom (if it ever gets built) that could do it but it will cost more than a Gripen.

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          • Originally posted by Graylion View Post
            I am not really seeing the point of the TA-50. Not nearly as widespread as the Gripen, and not built by a friend and ally. And not in service yet.
            The T-50 family of aircraft has been in-service since 2005, I even sat in one in 2009. It is serves with 5 nations currently and had been selected by a sixth, Argentina until the UK blocked the deal. Also the last time I checked we were not at war or even on unfriendly terms with the Republic of South Korea. And given that we are militarily neutral we do not have any military allies.

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            • Originally posted by Graylion View Post
              I am not really seeing the point of the TA-50. Not nearly as widespread as the Gripen, and not built by a friend and ally. And not in service yet.
              the only advantage with the TA-50 is we could round up all the stray dogs in the country and buy the bloody things Austrian butter for guns style....
              "We will hold out until our last bullet is spent. Could do with some whiskey"
              Radio transmission, siege of Jadotville DR Congo. September 1961.
              Illegitimi non carborundum

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              • Originally posted by Turkey View Post
                the only advantage with the TA-50 is we could round up all the stray dogs in the country and buy the bloody things Austrian butter for guns style....
                Does that mean if we had rounded up all the stray horses we could have got some Rafales back in 2010?

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                • Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
                  Does that mean if we had rounded up all the stray horses we could have got some Rafales back in 2010?
                  I think maybe we should go with SAAB.......
                  "We will hold out until our last bullet is spent. Could do with some whiskey"
                  Radio transmission, siege of Jadotville DR Congo. September 1961.
                  Illegitimi non carborundum

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
                    The T-50 family of aircraft has been in-service since 2005, I even sat in one in 2009. It is serves with 5 nations currently and had been selected by a sixth, Argentina until the UK blocked the deal. Also the last time I checked we were not at war or even on unfriendly terms with the Republic of South Korea. And given that we are militarily neutral we do not have any military allies.
                    The Dauphin family of helicopter had been in service 10 years by the time we got our five. Unfortunately everything on our version was unique to it, and that's how the trouble started. Our type wasnt even the same as the French navy type of the same designation.
                    Only when the FA-50 has been in service can you see if the performance match the promises on the brochure.(the TA-50 is light attack, no good to us, but possibly useful to indonesia, flexing its muscles in its former colonies)
                    Lets see how Iraq and the Phillipines get on with them first. First deliveries were only 4 years ago.
                    The Dauphin promised 200 mile range. It only managed it with a clean aircraft,(no hoist) spare internal fuel tank (reducing internal storage) P1 only (a 2 pilot aircraft) and the pilot wearing just boxing shorts.

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                    • The FA-50 has been in operational service with both South Korea and the Philippines since 2014, and it is basically a Lockheed aircraft since KAI relied on Lockheed for a lot of support. The systems are mostly MOTS and have a high level of maturity. As an entry level jet it has its merits but it is not a Tier 1 fighter that could go toe-to-toe with a Gripen.

                      If I had to choose I would go with a Gripen or Viper, but if you can't get either of them then the FA-50 is a good compromise.

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                      • Our Dauphin was on a par with Saudi Arabia's, for the sheer volume of options/kit it carried, with the exception of the ability to carry an Exocet. It was more or less a nearly unique to us aircraft and it was technically on a par with an A320 in terms of computing power. It was really too much aircraft for us, at the time. We should have had the Lynx as that was really a genuine Naval heli with a serious pedigree.

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                        • There exists layout drawings of eithne, that appeared in a Cosantoir from the early 80s, and the heli profile on the deck and in the hangar is a lynx, not a Dauphin.

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                          • Depending on who you talk to/who tells the best story/who buys the round, the Lynx was the realist's choice, as it was readily available, battle proven, tough as old boots and the RN would provide excellent training but it was regarded by some as politically unacceptable, being built by the Auld Enemy/not sufficiently bang up to date and they didnt want confusion with the green Lynxes being used in the Fourth Green Field.

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                            • Even if their ones has skids? Didn't stop air corps getting Gazelles.

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                              • The Lynx was originally part of the Anglo-French co-operation on helicopters which also included the Puma and Gazelle, but only the latter two were supported by the French. Having said that the French Navy did order the Lynx and it has only recently been retired. At the time although there was some commonality between the Navy and Army models it was not as much as we have today with the Wildcat (Lynx++).

                                There is a lesson also for any possible future jet fighter: buy off-the-shelf, do not modify.

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