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  • Just glancing over the document, I have a question. If ab-initio heli training is to be done in the US, does this mean RW candidates will no longer do Wings course on PC9M? Surely starting on helis when you are going to stay on helis makes more sense in the current situation?

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    • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
      Just glancing over the document, I have a question. If ab-initio heli training is to be done in the US, does this mean RW candidates will no longer do Wings course on PC9M? Surely starting on helis when you are going to stay on helis makes more sense in the current situation?
      Appears to be RW focused so I assume that they have sufficient FW instructors

      Comment


      • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
        Just glancing over the document, I have a question. If ab-initio heli training is to be done in the US, does this mean RW candidates will no longer do Wings course on PC9M? Surely starting on helis when you are going to stay on helis makes more sense in the current situation?
        The current officers undertaking helicopter training in the US are qualified pilots who have completed a wings course on the PC-9.

        Historically all students were stranded FW or RW after passing a FW based wings course. I don't believe there is any intention to change this at the moment. But I do agree with you.

        To be clear. As of today, there is no FW/abinitio officers training in the US. The article is wrong.
        Last edited by Chuck; 6 January 2021, 01:07.

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        • Even if we do not have any ab-intro pilots at Rucker the price is a fantastic deal, 4 for €850,000, that is hard to beat.

          So rather than everyone focusing on that they should be focusing on why the AC system is failing (other than pay etc). Do we really need to have RW pilots first qualify as FW, yes it is currently the requirement but should that remain so? What other nations do the same? The Yanks don't, neither do the Brits. That is where the debate should be especially as if the AC as to do more EAS/SAR etc it is RW pilots it needs, and as many as quickly as possible.

          Just out of interest, if anyone does know which other EU nations that first requires their RW pilots to first qualify on FW, I would be interested.

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          • Looking at it from my uneducated eye, there would presumably be lots of transferable skills that would make the RW training easier and quicker if FW qualified first. Also, with smaller air arms like the AC, I would guess that there would be far greater flexibility if everyone could fly fixed-wing. It’s not like all the AC pilots are being trained on fast jets AND Rotary.
            'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
            'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
            Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
            He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
            http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

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            • Every potential pilot has to be screened and that's what initial fixed wing training is about. It also includes instrument flight training, which is the same regardless of FW or RW. Remember,it's the vacancies downstream that determine the amount of people sent for RW or more FW. Unfortunately, both streams need gaps filled so cadets will be streamed as early as possible. Anyone going overseas will be very carefully filtered before they leave the country. The last thing the Don wants is some guy/girl coming back and wanting out early or failing to deliver. I'll bet any candidate for overseas will be given a few laps of the parish to see if they can actually "do" rotary. You'd be surprised how many people, otherwise capable of flying an aeroplane, are not fundamentally suited to RW,especially military RW. I recall going up in a four seat heli, as a pax, with a very experienced FW guy being given a go up front and he was quite unnerved by the whole thing. He hated being airborne at such slow speed and hovering really threw him and the inherent vibration was the final nail on the head.

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              • AAC Pilots in the UK (after Sandhurst) commence pilot training on the Airbus H135 Juno, before moving on to Wildcat or Apache. RAF, RN and AAC pilots all train on RAF Junos (some move on to H145 Jupiter if going mountain flying or ASW). It would be ideal if we were able to stream into this training school.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
                  Every potential pilot has to be screened and that's what initial fixed wing training is about. It also includes instrument flight training, which is the same regardless of FW or RW. Remember,it's the vacancies downstream that determine the amount of people sent for RW or more FW. Unfortunately, both streams need gaps filled so cadets will be streamed as early as possible. Anyone going overseas will be very carefully filtered before they leave the country. The last thing the Don wants is some guy/girl coming back and wanting out early or failing to deliver. I'll bet any candidate for overseas will be given a few laps of the parish to see if they can actually "do" rotary. You'd be surprised how many people, otherwise capable of flying an aeroplane, are not fundamentally suited to RW,especially military RW. I recall going up in a four seat heli, as a pax, with a very experienced FW guy being given a go up front and he was quite unnerved by the whole thing. He hated being airborne at such slow speed and hovering really threw him and the inherent vibration was the final nail on the head.
                  I'm no pilot but I have been told it's like going from a motorcycle to a quad. The instincts you have developed on 2 wheels work against you on 4. The question begs though, is FW screening any advantage to RW pilots?

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                  • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                    AAC Pilots in the UK (after Sandhurst) commence pilot training on the Airbus H135 Juno, before moving on to Wildcat or Apache. RAF, RN and AAC pilots all train on RAF Junos (some move on to H145 Jupiter if going mountain flying or ASW). It would be ideal if we were able to stream into this training school.
                    All British forces RW pilots complete elementary FW flight training first

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                    • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                      All British forces RW pilots complete elementary FW flight training first
                      EFT on a side by side piston prop is a lot more practical than in a tandem armed TP, don't you think.

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                      • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                        EFT on a side by side piston prop is a lot more practical than in a tandem armed TP, don't you think.
                        Absolutely remember the Marchettis
                        But they have the numbers that can justify the different aircraft types

                        To be honest I’m surprised that the RAF couldn’t provide, it’s reported that they are having difficulties recruiting and training sufficient pilots

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                        • Weston is a short hop away from the don. Civvy contractor does EFT out of weston. SORTED.

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                          • the RAF pilot stream appears to be in some difficulty, with a backlog of accepted candidates waiting for training slots and units short of qualified crews so the entire system is in disarray. This is ammunition for those who hate the privatisation of cadet screening and other privatisations, such as the antics of Crapita with regard to ordinary recruit induction.

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                            • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                              Weston is a short hop away from the don. Civvy contractor does EFT out of weston. SORTED.
                              Or bring them into the Don as contractors

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                              • Originally posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
                                the RAF pilot stream appears to be in some difficulty, with a backlog of accepted candidates waiting for training slots and units short of qualified crews so the entire system is in disarray. This is ammunition for those who hate the privatisation of cadet screening and other privatisations, such as the antics of Crapita with regard to ordinary recruit induction.
                                Could the delayed introduction of 2 new types onto frontline service have contributed to this?
                                The F35 is arriving in very small quantities, only 20 of the 138 ordered delivered by December just gone. The Tonkas and Harriers it replaced being disposed of long ago.
                                The nine P8A Maritime patrol aircraft (replacing 35 of a type removed from service 10 years ago) only coming at a rate of one every few months.
                                How are pilots supposed to stay current with so few aircraft?

                                Add to that the retirement of the Meccano fleet, and only 14 Texans available for BFT, replacing the 130 Meccanos that were once available.

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