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  • Originally posted by Graylion View Post

    A fair bit bigger than the Gripen. But yes, looks very very interesting. Cost will be a massive factor, but I agree, this could soak up quite a few exports.
    So having had a look at it. 50% heavier than the Gripen. 65M$ vs 120 M$. Very tempting. I'd see about observer status.

    Comment


    • One Billion Euro for x12 Rafale (including spares training support etc)

      https://www.defensenews.com/global/e...-fighter-jets/
      'History is a vast early warning system'. Norman Cousins

      Comment


      • IF we were to get "jets" what sort of armament fitout would be expected. Would we just stick with the on board gun and the current Air to Ground rockets or would people expect Air to Air missiles, BVR missiles, Air to Ground missiles ,Smart bombs and dumb bombs?. Would we go down the road of getting enough to equip every aircraft or just enough to equipp one or two. What are the cost and support implications

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        • Now we are looking for direct entry techs

          https://www.military.ie/en/careers/c...corps-tech.pdf

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          • Concerns raised over Russian military aircraft flying in Irish airspace | Ireland | The Times
            (Paywall)
            Concerns raised over Russian military aircraft flying in Irish airspace


            John Mooney
            Monday June 07 2021, 12.01am BST, The TimesA version of the Tu142 Bear was monitored off the west coast of Ireland in March last year
            ALEXANDER DEMIANCHUK/GETTY IMAGES
            The Irish Aviation Authority has raised the issue of incursions by foreign military aircraft into Irish airspace in its submission to the Commission on the Future of the Defence Forces.

            The commission last week published a heavily redacted version of the IAA submission, which removed all references to the matter. The redactions were made at the request of the IAA, citing national security concerns.


            The IAA submission is said to be linked to incursions by Russian military aircraft last year. In March 2020, six Russian aircraft were detected by Nato and European air forces off the west coast of Ireland.

            In the first incident, a Tu142MK Bear-F anti-submarine aircraft and a Bear-J communications relay aircraft were monitored. Days later, two Tu142 Bear-F anti-submarine aircraft were
            .......
            Link to the Heavily redacted IAA submission.
            gov.ie - Public Consultation: Commission on the Defence Forces (www.gov.ie)
            German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
            German 2: Private? I am a general!
            German 1: That is the bad news.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by DeV View Post
              Now we are looking for direct entry techs

              https://www.military.ie/en/careers/c...corps-tech.pdf
              Even a Cat A mech can make more than this in civvy street,without military bull added. A B1 in any airline makes considerably more. The bar is set far too low and it shows a clear lack of understanding of the industry. I doubt if you'd get many takers.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post

                Even a Cat A mech can make more than this in civvy street,without military bull added. A B1 in any airline makes considerably more. The bar is set far too low and it shows a clear lack of understanding of the industry. I doubt if you'd get many takers.
                I’d assume that main may not have a job to go back to

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                • I think if you dropped the whole having to be in the military part then you might have a chance of recruiting Techs, a contract covering shift work, unsocial hours and off sight working could easily be put together

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by apc View Post
                    I think if you dropped the whole having to be in the military part then you might have a chance of recruiting Techs, a contract covering shift work, unsocial hours and off sight working could easily be put together
                    The very nature of what would be required from them would make this untenable. No point relying on civvy techs if in the middle of an operation they all down tools because one of their team was frowned at by the Flight Sgt.
                    Your aircraft is grounded and the few techs in uniform that remain can't fix it either, because that would be contracted work for civvy techs.
                    Better off creating a grade between NCO and Officer that can retain techs from the civvy world, pay them in line with civvy pay, but not impact on the rest of the DF pay structure. Limit their promotion to technical posts only from the outset. You want them swinging spanners, not polishing sam browne.
                    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
                    German 2: Private? I am a general!
                    German 1: That is the bad news.

                    Comment


                    • Plenty of air forces use civilian techs and pilots either as contractors for a specific task or for hangar overhauls/shop visits. The RAF is a clear case in point and have been doing so for decades. Uniformed guys do the weapons/pyrotechnics bits and civvies do everything else.............in the case of the advert, they want industry professionals to join at the lowest rank on the lowest pay and crawl their way up the food chain, spend 16 weeks on military courses to get to the next lowest rank and still remain motivated and interested in an environment where the pay is so low that housing is impossible to obtain. The age limit is 29. If I was a B1 or a well-skilled A, at that age, the AC is the last place I'd consider, when you think of the fact that a B1 with a Type is making 50 to 70K. As for Dev's point about jobs, the airline industry will pick up in a fairly short time scale and it will be screaming for people yet Covid aside, it is shedding people for better pay in pharma and IT. Only the truly desperate would respond to an ad that offers the lowest rank and the lowest rates to experienced people. Someone clearly did not think this one through.

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                      • Can't understand why they are taking technicians at recruit level. When the NS recruits DE techies, they usually enter at L/S (Cpl equivalent) in engineering branch. You could bring them in the same way you recruit the Army band. Give them a quick marching and saluting course, then point them to the Hangars.
                        Lets call a spade a spade though, that pay is scandalous, even with Tech Pay. And they expect them to live in Dublin on that money?
                        German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
                        German 2: Private? I am a general!
                        German 1: That is the bad news.

                        Comment


                        • There really no reason why they shouldnt be paid along the lines of the Gardai, Prison Service, Emergency Services, after all they are Unique ,Trained, Skilled and protect Society the same as the blue light services

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by apc View Post
                            There really no reason why they shouldnt be paid along the lines of the Gardai, Prison Service, Emergency Services, after all they are Unique ,Trained, Skilled and protect Society the same as the blue light services
                            The reason is it's cheaper.

                            Pay in the public sector in Ireland is a cycle of collective bargaining between unions and the government. The DF has no real unions, don't have a voice, and they get screwed. See the NAS too. They are/were in the nurses union and had no real voice when it came time to get a pay rise.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Jaque'ammer View Post

                              The reason is it's cheaper.

                              Pay in the public sector in Ireland is a cycle of collective bargaining between unions and the government. The DF has no real unions, don't have a voice, and they get screwed. See the NAS too. They are/were in the nurses union and had no real voice when it came time to get a pay rise.
                              It's not all rosey in the garden.
                              As a PS worker, my old union was too small to have a useful voice, so we took all the pay cuts, and the additional working hours 9without extra pay) even though we were at the bottom of the ladder. Entry level pay was Under 20K a year.
                              So we merged with a few other unions. We merged with another union that had no problem crossing picket lines when we did 1 day strikes years ago. We merged with a union made up of the managers we used to go to our old union to complain about.
                              Now we have a union that is too busy having Solidarity with the Palestinian general strike, or complaining that civilian workers will be "conscripted" into AGS to worry about whether we can afford to work from home. The louder voice is not always the one shouting the message you want to get out.
                              Unions are not the be all and end all. The problem in Ireland is ICTU who represent all unions equally. Or so they say. But all recent government deals suited the government of the day, not the worker.
                              And I say that as a rep.
                              German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
                              German 2: Private? I am a general!
                              German 1: That is the bad news.

                              Comment


                              • Sorry! I didn't mean to make it sound like there's a bunch of PS workers living like lords while the rest of them scrounge around

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