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Defending the Irish airspace

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  • I think it's just great that the discussion is being put into Joe Public's arena.
    Those of us with an interest in that sort of thing , who already know the correct answer to the question, aren't that big a voice. Joe Public, dumb as he may be, may have other ideas, and may have assumed we had this all along. After all why wouldn't we. Vampires, O'Connell St 1966 etc.

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    • Originally posted by Sparky42 View Post

      All people are going to see is 40 Gripens at which point the article has achieved the goal of killing off the idea dead in the public and political sphere.
      Which should have meant an option for 14 Gripens as well

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      • Originally posted by Jaque'ammer View Post

        lol. If a singular data point on a graph in a random news article is what does it we never had a chance anyway. Open and honest debate is only a good thing for defence in Ireland. The previous approach is clearly not working.
        The 160 million pa is what people are going to see and that will be as far as it goes, there won’t be any debate about it.

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        • Originally posted by Sparky42 View Post

          The 160 million pa is what people are going to see and that will be as far as it goes, there won’t be any debate about it.
          With Veradker proposing an extra 4 billion a year for health, and M Martin offering one billion to the Mica houses in Mayo and Donegal, 168 million p.a to run 40 Gripens is chickenfeed.

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          • Originally posted by Herald View Post

            With Veradker proposing an extra 4 billion a year for health, and M Martin offering one billion to the Mica houses in Mayo and Donegal, 168 million p.a to run 40 Gripens is chickenfeed.
            Want to see how quickly that can sour the suggestion, 168 million, sure that would build x houses/more teachers/ more cycle lanes… It’s the Irish DOD and Finance we are talking about here.

            Anyone have any info on the comment about the Primary Radar systems from a few years ago?

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            • Originally posted by Sparky42 View Post

              Want to see how quickly that can sour the suggestion, 168 million, sure that would build x houses/more teachers/ more cycle lanes… It’s the Irish DOD and Finance we are talking about here.

              Anyone have any info on the comment about the Primary Radar systems from a few years ago?
              That was interesting alright, obviously just tentative, as it seems like no RFI was issued.

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              • Originally posted by Herald View Post

                That was interesting alright, obviously just tentative, as it seems like no RFI was issued.
                Might have been a reaction to the WP highlighting but they got no interest from the department? Wonder what they were putting forward?

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                • Originally posted by Sparky42 View Post

                  Want to see how quickly that can sour the suggestion, 168 million, sure that would build x houses/more teachers/ more cycle lanes… It’s the Irish DOD and Finance we are talking about here.

                  Anyone have any info on the comment about the Primary Radar systems from a few years ago?
                  I don't believe that figure for a moment. Back of the envelope:

                  40 Gripen at 120M$/pop = roughly 4 G€. 40 fighters is what 100 pilots plus how many ground crew? And a new base? Ground radars, C3I etc? Nope

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                  • Originally posted by Graylion View Post

                    I don't believe that figure for a moment. Back of the envelope:

                    40 Gripen at 120M$/pop = roughly 4 G€. 40 fighters is what 100 pilots plus how many ground crew? And a new base? Ground radars, C3I etc? Nope
                    The whole Gripen option looks a BS one to try and sell the FA 50 as the more reasonable option, though to be fair the 168 million figure is the PA one, they didn’t touch the capital cost of the purchase at all. I would love to know how they jumped to 40 tbh, though at that we’d have every major western company trying to sell their birds to us.

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                    • Originally posted by Sparky42 View Post

                      The whole Gripen option looks a BS one to try and sell the FA 50 as the more reasonable option, though to be fair the 168 million figure is the PA one, they didn’t touch the capital cost of the purchase at all. I would love to know how they jumped to 40 tbh, though at that we’d have every major western company trying to sell their birds to us.
                      I still go with 12 Gripen Charlie and 2 Deltas leased. Like Czechia and Hungary. Add ground based radars and C3I and see how we like it after 10 years.

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                      • Originally posted by Graylion View Post

                        I still go with 12 Gripen Charlie and 2 Deltas leased. Like Czechia and Hungary. Add ground based radars and C3I and see how we like it after 10 years.
                        Which is why I’m wondering why such an offer isn’t even mentioned in the submission (though it might be in others), the article does seem geared towards suggesting current gen fighters are out of reach. Though there’s also the option of the Rafales, given how France is starting to move them they might be willing to give us a great deal.

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                        • Originally posted by Sparky42 View Post

                          Which is why I’m wondering why such an offer isn’t even mentioned in the submission (though it might be in others), the article does seem geared towards suggesting current gen fighters are out of reach. Though there’s also the option of the Rafales, given how France is starting to move them they might be willing to give us a great deal.
                          higher cost per flight hour though.

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                          • In the context of getting fighter aircraft what does policing our airspace entail. Does it mean if we have an aircraft available we deploy it or does it mean that we operate 24/7 QRA. Is there really any point in looking to buy a handful of aircraft to continue as is. If we are to be serious about policing and/or defending our airspace then do it properly, Ground radar, Air to Air refueling tankers and armaments ( where do we drawn the line there)

                            What is our airspace that we are to police, Does our airspace stop at the 12 mile limit?, have we a right to police any aircraft outside of our airspace, would that not be seen as confrontational?

                            If the belligerent aircraft fails to respond to warnings , what realistically are our options?

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                            • The article shows what our airspace is, its small enough on the east coast but extends about 200 miles off the west coast.

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                              • Kevin byrne said that irish airspace extends to the 12 mile limit so anything after that would be airspace controlled by IAA for commercial purposes. Surely military are not obliged to submit flight plans nor operate transponders when on military operations

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