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Defending the Irish airspace

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    EUFighter
    Colonel

  • EUFighter
    replied
    Abbeyshrule,.........is that not where we are hiding our F-35s, hopefully none were spotted.

    The incident goes to show what we discuss a few times that the need for primary radar and aircraft to police our skies are needed for things other than the odd Russian Bear.

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  • GoneToTheCanner
    C/S

  • GoneToTheCanner
    replied
    I guess you havent watched tonights news yet.....apart from that, if it's in controlled airspace, it has to have it's transponder on. If you are in Class G airspace, which is actually quite a lot of Irish airspace, you don't need a transponder or even if you have one, to have it on. You'd be surprised how close to a main airport you can get and still be legally in Class G.

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  • na grohmiti
    Commander in Chief

  • na grohmiti
    replied
    I'm often out in the garden here (I'm on an approach to Cork Airport) a small aircraft passes over and I go to my flight radar app to see what it is, only to have no result.
    We know there are many modern long range light aircraft with excellent avionics, and rough field performance, that can collect from the continent, and land in some prepared field in a rural area, and unless someone is looking the right way at the time, nobody knows anything about it.

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  • CTU
    replied
    https://www.rte.ie/news/crime/2022/0...drugs-seizure/

    Who knows what else is going on under the radar (Pun very much intended)

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  • Flamingo
    Hostage

  • Flamingo
    replied
    Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
    FA-50 per the article. (I don't think they are making the TA-50 any more)
    My bad!

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  • EUFighter
    Colonel

  • EUFighter
    replied
    Originally posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post

    the Filipino aircraft are probably required for nothing heavier than daylight raids on rebels in Mindanao. they have to replace SIAI S211s and SIAI SF260 TPs as strike aircraft. That's what happens when you run down your Air Arm to using obsolete or inadequate aircraft to fight a very determined enemy and wonder why they keep coming back.
    Currently PAF task them with air defence, but limited they PAF have down selected The F16 and JAS39 for an order of 12 aircraft for their next fighter aircraft, Long term the Koreans see them as a potential customer for the KF-21.

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  • Anzac
    replied
    Originally posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post

    the Filipino aircraft are probably required for nothing heavier than daylight raids on rebels in Mindanao. they have to replace SIAI S211s and SIAI SF260 TPs as strike aircraft. That's what happens when you run down your Air Arm to using obsolete or inadequate aircraft to fight a very determined enemy and wonder why they keep coming back.
    Their SF260's are fairly recent bought in 2011 so I cannot see them getting rid of those anytime soon. The PAF did buy 6 Embraer A-29's in 2020 for the CAS/COIN role and are looking to by up to 24 (Which means they they will probably buy another 6 because the Philippines have a history of champagne dreams on a beer budget) which will replace the their older weapons trainers and COIN aircraft. They still fly a handful of OV-10 Bronco's which have done most of the COIN work down south.

    For example a year ago they downselected the F-16V Block 70's as they have not the $2 Billion they are now winding that back to either used F-16C Block 25/30 upgraded to Block 50 standard, used Gripen C's upgraded to C+ or as has been suggested in Philippines media over the last month FA-50 Block 20's. In the past they have asked for used F-16's but the US has refused them and only now after a few years with the FA-50 and with recent training exercises with visiting USAF F-16 Squadrons they are considered to be at a capability level that they wont be wasted on them, which has always been a concern.

    The FA-50PH does CAS/Interdiction but are now also are used in the AIDZ policing role, but primarily it was acquired as a capability development platform, because when they lost their F-5's over twenty years ago they more significantly lost all their institutional knowledge in operating and sustaining an air combat platform. It all atrophied and evaporated, not just tactical flying abilities but the significant knowledge in how to manage the massive logistics and personnel tail that goes with. Their FA-50's were/are capable of doing day-night all weather CAS but it is the human factors that they have had to build up capacity on.
    Last edited by Anzac; 4 August 2022, 13:09.

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  • GoneToTheCanner
    C/S

  • GoneToTheCanner
    replied
    Originally posted by Anzac View Post
    They still are making the "TA-50" Block 2 which is based on the FA-50 airframe but no longer based on the earlier T-50 airframe as was the case in the past.

    The initial T-50/TA-50 airframe is now out of production. The Block 2 unlike the FA-50 Block 10 and 20 does not have tactical datalinks, or the same level of electronic countermeasures and some other avionic bits and bobs and is basically similar to the earlier Block 0 FA-50's that were delivered to the Philippines and RoKAF.

    Twelve of the Polish aircraft will be in the "TA-50" configuration and around 6-8 of the Columbian order are said to be in this more basic fit-out.
    the Filipino aircraft are probably required for nothing heavier than daylight raids on rebels in Mindanao. they have to replace SIAI S211s and SIAI SF260 TPs as strike aircraft. That's what happens when you run down your Air Arm to using obsolete or inadequate aircraft to fight a very determined enemy and wonder why they keep coming back.

    Leave a comment:


  • Anzac
    replied
    They still are making the "TA-50" Block 2 which is based on the FA-50 airframe but no longer based on the earlier T-50 airframe as was the case in the past.

    The initial T-50/TA-50 airframe is now out of production. The Block 2 unlike the FA-50 Block 10 and 20 does not have tactical datalinks, or the same level of electronic countermeasures and some other avionic bits and bobs and is basically similar to the earlier Block 0 FA-50's that were delivered to the Philippines and RoKAF.

    Twelve of the Polish aircraft will be in the "TA-50" configuration and around 6-8 of the Columbian order are said to be in this more basic fit-out.
    Last edited by Anzac; 4 August 2022, 10:41.

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  • na grohmiti
    Commander in Chief

  • na grohmiti
    replied
    FA-50 per the article. (I don't think they are making the TA-50 any more)

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  • Flamingo
    Hostage

  • Flamingo
    replied
    Poland are getting 48 TA-50's (along with lots of other stuff)
    Poland is buying almost 1,000 tanks, more than 600 pieces of artillery and dozens of fighter jets from South Korea, in part to replace equipment donated to Ukraine to help Kyiv fight the Russian invasion, the Polish Ministry of Defense told CNN on Tuesday.

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  • EUFighter
    Colonel

  • EUFighter
    replied
    Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post

    Not sure where you are getting that. The proposal comes in under LOA3, which would only be considered after we first reach LOA2, which govt have committed to doing by 2028.
    There are several items related to going to LOA2 and to going even to LOA3 which have been accepted. The HLAP has four different answers to each recommendation; Accept, Accept in principle, Further Evaluation and Reverts. Now I know they put some PC wording on these to make think we still have a hope but lets put the true translations on them:

    ACCEPT: we will do this as it is not going to cost us a lot of money and will confine more solders to desk jobs so they will not be using up expensive equipment
    ACCEPT IN PRINCIPLE: we need to look at this again to be sure that it will not cost us more money in which case we will reject.
    FURTHER EVALUATION: we know this will cost us more money so we need to come up with a good reason why we cannot do it, unless the EU pays!
    REVERT: you're having a laugh, there is no way in hell we are ever going to pay for that.

    Recommendation #103 which would foresee us getting jets is under REVERT, as are 101-106, so I do not see us ever getting jets as much as I would like us to have them. Having had time to digest the HLIP the Defence Forces will be too occupied with admin tasks in the future to be able to do much else.

    The EU is at war, we did not ask for the war but the EU is at war, a proxy war at the moment but it is preparing just in case it goes hot. That preparation hopefully will be enough to stop that happening, only one country seems to be marching to a different tune, Ireland. The statement from Aras have showed were we stand.
    EUFighter
    Colonel
    Last edited by EUFighter; 3 August 2022, 07:06.

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  • na grohmiti
    Commander in Chief

  • na grohmiti
    replied
    Originally posted by EUFighter View Post

    It would be a good idea but the IL will remain a variant only ever in our minds the CoD and what has happen since its report has made it clear that we are going to continue on the path we have taken for the past 30 years. Even the much famed €1.5bn in 2028 will only be 0.3% of GNI; so we're not going to be getting any expansion of capabilities beyond what we have today. If we do get an aircraft from KAI it would be more the KT-1 rather than a T/FA-50.
    Not sure where you are getting that. The proposal comes in under LOA3, which would only be considered after we first reach LOA2, which govt have committed to doing by 2028.

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  • EUFighter
    Colonel

  • EUFighter
    replied
    Originally posted by Anzac View Post

    The FA-50 IL? Even an initial instalment of 6-8 TA-50 IL's as an advanced training and air combat capability development squadron to kick things off to eventually replace the PC-9's be great start and build from there. Then just a few Grob 120TP's and flight simulators to look after the initial phases for the flying curriculum. So a case of Back to the Future for the Air Corps with a modern take on the Marchetti SF.260 (Grob) and the CM.170 Magister (TA-50) way of doing things.
    It would be a good idea but the IL will remain a variant only ever in our minds the CoD and what has happen since its report has made it clear that we are going to continue on the path we have taken for the past 30 years. Even the much famed €1.5bn in 2028 will only be 0.3% of GNI; so we're not going to be getting any expansion of capabilities beyond what we have today. If we do get an aircraft from KAI it would be more the KT-1 rather than a T/FA-50.

    Leave a comment:


  • Anzac
    replied
    Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
    The T50/FA50 is racking up a number of orders, an oder from Columbia, a top-up from Indonesia and now the Polish order. Interestingly earlier in the year Wiki had Ireland as a future potential user but that community has since removed that speculation.
    Looks as though the Royal Malaysian Air Force will be next cab off the rank.

    https://www.thedefensepost.com/2022/...ea-figher-jet/

    The RMAF is looking to add a fleet of 36 light combat aircraft and lead-in fighter trainer aircraft in two to three instalments.

    These are to replace their F-5's and Mig 29's which are already out of service. I expect that they will also replace within the next few years their small fleets of MB-339's and their Hawks 100's and single seat 200's that are with 15 SQN. They used to fly the A-4 and F-5 and haven't really effectively replaced them.

    I understand the Malays are also looking for an in country MRO and Assembly centre for South East Asia like the Poles are keen on for the FA-50 in Europe.

    Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
    FA-50PL would be a fantastic piece of kit to have and a squadron or two would not only finally provide us with an air defence capability but also do more for recruiting than any amount of other advertising. If only Newbridge had not already killed off any chance of it happening, it would be something to look forward too.
    The FA-50 IL? Even an initial instalment of 6-8 TA-50 IL's as an advanced training and air combat capability development squadron to kick things off to eventually replace the PC-9's be great start and build from there. Then just a few Grob 120TP's and flight simulators to look after the initial phases for the flying curriculum. So a case of Back to the Future for the Air Corps with a modern take on the Marchetti SF.260 (Grob) and the CM.170 Magister (TA-50) way of doing things.





    Leave a comment:

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