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  • Originally posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post

    Chuck in "more cynical than GttC shock!"
    To be fair, GTTC, my cynicism is based on the state of the DF in recent times.

    My cynicism would lilely be less if I left 20 years ago after serving the minimal amount of time and having spent the interim enjoying the benefits of the private sector and putting the boot in about how inefficient DF stores are compared to civvie-land!

    Not to mention, Id have a lovely DF pension coming in once a month which would certainly soften the cynicism!

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    • If that's a dig at me, it's very misplaced. I gave the AC 11 years, which was more than the minimum required and no pension either. The alleged benefits of the private system are also misplaced, but, as an example, I have had considerably better access to advice on terms and conditions of my contract and considerably better advice and information about my future pension. I also have the sometime benefit of a Union that will actively stop the wilder stupidities of management. It doesnt always work but at least it forces management to think first and involve the workers' intelligence, experience and useful opinion before taking actions that cost time and money. The airline industry varies considerably from mere incompetence to outstanding brilliance and it does that on a daily, even hourly basis, but, fundamentally, it works and is very efficient at what it does.
      As for simple things like access to stores, what I found when I joined the airline, after two years in another partly related industry, was that access to tools, spare parts, consumables such as safety gloves and eyewear and workwear was that it was immediately accessible at all times, genuinely 24/7/365, did not depend on Sgt Storemen who were watching the clock or were mysteriously unavailable on a Wednesday afternoon or Unionised civvy storemen who routinely refused tools or even access to them, if it didnt suit their agenda. You sign stuff in and out on your ID card and the airline trusts it's people not to steal or vandalise and to take care of the equipment. It works, for the most part, because we are treated like adults and are expected to behave like adults. Our Storemen and our Stores system is/are excellent and they understand that the Stores serves the Operation, not the other way around and MUST strive to deliver upon demand and by and large, they do. It was like Night and Day, the comparison. Because we work closely with our Storemen, on the line and in the hangars, they understand our needs first hand and know what they have to deliver. This is the same for Fleet cleaners, the cabin crew, the pilots and the ground ops people such as our loaders and tug drivers. They know what they have to do in their particular part of the entire food chain and by and large, they do it very well. Of course, there is the usual; moaning and resentments and gripes but it does work very well, as an organisation. From occasional visits and from conversation about the Don with my mates there, it's immediately clear that the place is considerably (read as infinitely) better than when I was there, that many of the old, negative routines are gone but there is always an undercurrent of "old school" bureaucracy, foot dragging, alleged entitlements ("Sergeants don't do that, that's what we have Airmen for!") and so on. Militaries and airlines are not alike but they are very closely related and can always learn from each other and they'd be fools not to.

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      • Gttc, my apologies, my sarcasm obviously doesn't travel well across this forum!

        Your concerns about the stores issues are still as applicable as they were probably 50 years ago, never mind 20.
        Last edited by Chuck; 23 May 2022, 12:05.

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        • Originally posted by Chuck View Post
          Gttc, my apologies, my sarcasm obviously doesn't travel well across this forum!

          Your concerns about the stores issues are still as applicable as they were probably 50 years ago, never mind 20.
          That isn't unique to the Air Corps.
          I remember in AGS having to deal with civil servants who held the post of stationery storekeeper (it was an appointment), and requests to get as much as a biro or new official notebooks could only be done between 11am-1230PM Mon-Friday, Which wasn't much good if you were working the week of nights.
          Happily the post was eradicated in recent years and now one can merely go to a cupboard and take a biro out of a box. Or even the whole box, should the mood take you. Automated inventory systems are no longer a black art. The DF obsession with storemen, QMs, keys, seals and signing things in or out can easily be removed by use of modern software and electronic access control.
          If I can answer my own doorbell from anywhere in the world with a phone signal, surely the DF can manage a modern inventory management system that doesn't require attitude and stubbornness.
          For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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          • Not quite the same cartoon as we had in Tech Stores in The Don, but the meaning is exactly the same! GTTC would you have done the one I'm talking about? You can have all the technology you want, but someone who is having a bad day or being a Jobsworth can ruin your day as well!
            Attached Files

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            • Originally posted by ias View Post
              Is there any suggestion that these two aircraft may be delayed due to the fitting of extra military equipment (i.e. ASW/ASuW) as part of the additional €500 million expenditure?
              Originally posted by ias View Post
              Thanks for the answer, not what I would have liked but it is what I was expecting. Am I mistaken in thinking that there is a serious lack of urgency in implementing the CoD report, which I would have thought, especially with the changed European security environment, would now be a priority (similar to other countries)?
              There was no recommendation in the report for any aircraft of that type.

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              • I thought there was a proposal for ASW capability and this would be the quickest way to achieve that, no?

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                • Originally posted by ias View Post
                  I thought there was a proposal for ASW capability and this would be the quickest way to achieve that, no?
                  NS fleet only

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                  • The C295s are however getting LiDAR

                    Hexagon is partnering with Airbus on a near-real-time airborne bathymetric lidar surveillance system. Hexagon’s Geosystems division is partnering with Airbus to integrate two Leica Chiroptera 4X bathymetric lidar sensors for maritime surveillance into the C295 MSA, Airbus’ Maritime Surveillance Aircraft. Hexagon’s new technology enables detection of underwater objects in near real time, a significant innovation



                    which I think is mainly used for pollution surveillance but can do surveys of seabed down to up to 50 metres

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                    • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                      The C295s are however getting LiDAR

                      Hexagon is partnering with Airbus on a near-real-time airborne bathymetric lidar surveillance system. Hexagon’s Geosystems division is partnering with Airbus to integrate two Leica Chiroptera 4X bathymetric lidar sensors for maritime surveillance into the C295 MSA, Airbus’ Maritime Surveillance Aircraft. Hexagon’s new technology enables detection of underwater objects in near real time, a significant innovation



                      which I think is mainly used for pollution surveillance but can do surveys of seabed down to up to 50 metres
                      The system is designed to address the growing need of collecting high accuracy data for environmental monitoring and surveying of shallow water regions with survey depth down to 25 m.

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                      • Originally posted by Claudel Hopson View Post
                        Not quite the same cartoon as we had in Tech Stores in The Don, but the meaning is exactly the same! GTTC would you have done the one I'm talking about? You can have all the technology you want, but someone who is having a bad day or being a Jobsworth can ruin your day as well!
                        Not one of mine but they did have the old one that used the line "you want it when?!"

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                        • Originally posted by TangoSierra View Post

                          The system is designed to address the growing need of collecting high accuracy data for environmental monitoring and surveying of shallow water regions with survey depth down to 25 m.
                          Apologies it is the Hawkeye 4x that surveys down to 50 metres

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                          • Originally posted by ias View Post
                            I thought there was a proposal for ASW capability and this would be the quickest way to achieve that, no?

                            Originally posted by DeV View Post

                            NS fleet only
                            There was no mention of Anti-Submarine Warfare capability anywhere in the report's recommendations, either for aircraft or ships.

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                            • "Enhancement of sub-surface capabilities to monitor sub-sea cables."

                              Maybe I extrapolated too far from the above statement, my assumption being that the tools needed for these tasks (which I interpreted as being "interference with sub-sea cables") are the same as the ASW package of the C295. But as I'm sure you can tell I'm no expert so I will definitely accept what you say on this.

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                              • Originally posted by Rhodes View Post

                                There was no mention of Anti-Submarine Warfare capability anywhere in the report's recommendations, either for aircraft or ships.
                                not ASW, “sub-surface” - page 35

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