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  • Originally posted by DeV View Post
    You forget that at times the couldn’t be found to keep one of the top priorities (EAS) operational
    The EAS needed AW139 helicopter pilots and crews. An additional PC-12 would have put the demand on single engine fixed wing qualified pilots. The AC has been training PC-12 pilots in expectation of the special mission versions. If there is still a need for more pilots a conversion from PC-9 takes about 10 hours flying and 5 days ground course.

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    • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
      No reason to refuse a spare aircraft at a reasonable price.
      It is most satisfying to see this type of folly from the department, which I'm sure has been replicated multiple times over the decades, being laid bare by a FOI request and widely distributed on social media.

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      • The whole episode gives a good insight into the failings of the DoD higher levels. It is a picture where those lower down have more a grasp of the integrated strategic picture than those at the top who should be the ones with that capability.

        It seems that the GS made it clear he only wanted one aircraft and his direct reports went and got the case for that. Looking at some of the pro and cons it is easy to pick them aparts.

        "Issues with suppliers and sub-supplier due to Covid-19"
        The aircraft were completed and were not waiting on any part. And while 2 aircraft will in the long runs have a higher spares consumption than 1, in the short term having two means that one can always be kept flying. One is the flying machine and the other is the source of parts until a replacement can be sourced. With only one aircraft you are dependent on a parts supplier!

        "Hangar space"
        While it is good to keep aircraft in hangars and it is more comfortable to work on aircraft in hangars they are not mandatory. An aircraft can spend on the ramp, techies can work outside especially if the weather is good. But if it is really necessary a quick call to the RAF and we could have sourced one of their deployable shelter hangars!

        "Lack of strategic thing"
        The private air ambulance service which costs €7m over 2yrs for emergency night patient transport is mentioned but does not seem to have been taken into account (maybe it was redacted). But the State is paying a lot for a night cover and if there was some joined up strategic thinking the second aircraft might have allowed for the private contract to be replaced when it was up for renewal.
        Secondly it was raised that the DoH and the Gardai would have use for the aircraft beyond the Covid-19 crisis but there was little discussion on this.

        "Resources"
        There were two items that got my attention, the first of which was that the costs were within the capital budget but that even if they were not the aircraft could be financed by the monies that would be available due to the under manning of the DF's. The second was the admission that the AC was 200 under the target establishment of 880. To be remembered that the 880 establishment does not really account for the resources needed to support the EAS mission.

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        • Isn't the AW139 in Athlone living in a tent? And heli's as a rule are more sensitive to weather than most fixed wing, and I'm sure the Royal Flying Doctor service who use the PC12 in the bush, don't park them in Hangars every night?
          German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
          German 2: Private? I am a general!
          German 1: That is the bad news.

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          • This may not be a popular opinion but while the museum inhabits a hangar it cannot be said that there is insufficient hangar space.

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            • Originally posted by Jetjock View Post
              This may not be a popular opinion but while the museum inhabits a hangar it cannot be said that there is insufficient hangar space.
              Fair Point. If you need space, the museum can go into temporary storage.
              German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
              German 2: Private? I am a general!
              German 1: That is the bad news.

              Comment


              • The hangar it lives in is not fit for service as a genuine hangar and they were supposed to build a big new museum across the road from the Don, to ensure public access,but that plan quietly faded...

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                • "Fair Point. If you need space, the museum can go into temporary storage."

                  Hopefully, not into a bin.

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                  • Originally posted by Pegasus View Post
                    "Fair Point. If you need space, the museum can go into temporary storage."

                    Hopefully, not into a bin.
                    If your museum cannot be accessed by the public it is not a museum, it is a private collection of artifacts. Things normally kept in storage. I assume they are kept in the last of the WW1 vintage hangars? If so then knock it down, make it bigger, put modern aircraft in the new part. If the RAF don't care about the old hangar building they still own why should we care about the ones they built we own? They demolished one of the similar hangars in the Duxford for a scene in the movie "The Battle of Britain".
                    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
                    German 2: Private? I am a general!
                    German 1: That is the bad news.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                      assume they are kept in the last of the WW1 vintage hangars? If so then knock it down, make it bigger, put modern aircraft in the new part.
                      You can't "knock down" a listed building unfortunately.

                      You can however throw plenty of money at it to make it fit for purpose.

                      The officers mess in McKee being a prime example.

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                      • That whole argument about listed hangars was why the plan to build the new museum was created. Public access to the current museum is restricted because it's still open to the airside, so people can only go in there on a guided tour. Because of Covid, all civilian access to the Museum is stopped and the normal availability of tours of the rest of the place is stopped.

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                        • Ok. I'm looking for solutions. What is the VIP lounge that is just about airside used for now? Next to the new new hangar.
                          Knock it. Build a proper hangar on the footprint occupied by lawn and car park.
                          German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
                          German 2: Private? I am a general!
                          German 1: That is the bad news.

                          Comment


                          • Let the aircraft live outside, like most do. Only the most rarified get to live full time indoors.

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                            • Originally posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
                              Let the aircraft live outside, like most do. Only the most rarified get to live full time indoors.
                              And keep your paws away from the Museum.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                                Ok. I'm looking for solutions. What is the VIP lounge that is just about airside used for now? Next to the new new hangar.
                                Knock it. Build a proper hangar on the footprint occupied by lawn and car park.
                                There are already references to hangar 6 (published on DOD website) and the upgrade of the tower etc. Whether it ever happens or not is another question.

                                Doesn't take a genius to figure out what the optimum choice of location is given some of the existing infrastructure which exists.

                                The museum is great for the handful of hobbyists which tend to it on a part time basis. The reality is that it takes up a large amount of real estate that could be better utilised.

                                I understand that the historians/hobbyists will likely object to this but a museum has no place airside for a multitude of reasons.

                                Throw up a few tents and find space for it in Collins.

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