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  • Typhoon v F-15E

    spotted at http://www.airpower.at/cgi-bin/forum...play&num=20232


    Thursday the 19th of February 2004 will mark the day when the undisputed king of air superiority had to surrender its thirty-year crown to a newcomer. It happened over the skies of Windermere, in the scenic English Lake District. Two Eurofighter Typhoon twin-seaters were on the first RAF formation training flight from Warton Aerodrome when they were bounced from the eight o'clock by a couple of F-15Es belonging to the USAFE's 48th TFW, probably the most formidable and experienced combat unit in the European theatre. The Typhoon crew did not seem to be intimidated and with two rapid counters ended up on the F-15 tail, comfortably gunning the trailing one, who was in full afterburner, wings rocking and wondering what had happened.

    It is fair to expect that the most surprised by this first encounter result would be the F15 crew, used to dominate the skies since the mid-seventies and with an exchange ratio record of 101 wins to zero losses, and a bunch of die-hard Eurofighter critics without much knowledge of the new fighter air combat capabilities. It is understandable if the RAF rookies would also show their surprise at the outcome, as one does not expect to win an air engagement on the first training sortie with a brand new machine against one of the best combat units in the world, riding what up to now has been the best fighter in history.

    But that is history now!

    Those definitely not surprised by what the events over the Lake District skies signify are the top echelon in the Air Combat Command, the Chief of Staff and the RAND Corp. analysts and boffins. They have been saying for years that the F-15 is no match to the new generation of European fighters and even to the Su-35 Flanker. They know what they say: their operational analyses studies and other simulated evaluations-as indeed have ours, both at the industry and government level-have shown that the F-15 is unable to gain air superiority against Eurofighter Typhoon. Now they have the first real indication that their worries were not unjustified and that the F/A-22 was the right choice, if they want to maintain the air superiority also in the future.


    any comments?
    is it particularly surprising considering that the F-15s basic designdates from c1972 and the Typhoon is c 20 years old, a whole generation in the difference?
    "Gentlemen, you can’t fight in here...this is the War Room!"

  • #2
    Surprising? Not at all.

    The USAF has just watched Army aviation's pet project, the RAH-66, get cancelled. There has been a string of reports suggesting that the F-15 (the C is the air superiority variant) is out of date and incapable by comparison with the Eurocanards and SU-3X (including reports from recent Indian exercises).

    Bottomline, the USAF want the Raptor, and they're not above a good degree of spin to make sure that funding remains secure.

    Don't believe a word of it, the best ACM team in the business is still the USAF.

    Comment


    • #3
      The Typhoon is gonna surrender to the F-22's and X-35's in a few years anyway, so no biggie.
      "Everyone's for a free Tibet, but no one's for freeing Tibet." -Mark Steyn. What an IMO-centric quote, eh?

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      • #4
        What number of f-22's are the usaf getting now, last I heard it was under 300, how are they going to keep up with global commitments
        Dr. Venture: Why is it every time I need to get somewhere, we get waylaid by jackassery?

        Dr. Venture: Dean, you smell like a whore

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        • #5
          'Don't believe a word of it, the best ACM team in the business is still the USAF.'

          I sorta agree with you there, Aidan, but I would not be too quick to write off either the Eurofighter or the RAF.
          Apart from that, anybody want to speculate as to the possablities of the F-35 getting the elbow?
          "We will hold out until our last bullet is spent. Could do with some whiskey"
          Radio transmission, siege of Jadotville DR Congo. September 1961.
          Illegitimi non carborundum

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          • #6
            The F 15s record against adversaries is a silly score,as it has never fought against an equally trained or motivated enemy. A Bit like saying the Irish army has fought off every foreign attack since 1945....


            Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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            • #7
              Is it a "silly score" when you factor in ground defences,I doubt any pilot who has flown in any engagment involving the F-15 would agree with you on that, especially the ones who have flown through all that nasty stuff like radar guided AAA and SAMS, A kills a kill in my book
              "ya might wanna raise your gear."

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              • #8
                Originally posted by mutter nutter
                What number of f-22's are the usaf getting now, last I heard it was under 300, how are they going to keep up with global commitments
                I read something in the Wall Street Journal, I think it's like 150-250 now. Original order back in early 90's was over 600, but we realized the plane wasn't really necessary other to simply replace the F-16's/F-15's/A-10's that have been around for 30 years. They've obviously cut back the order a few times, in 1999 someone in Congress even called it, "A failed remnant of the Cold War era." (or something like that) First operational squadron is slated for late 2005 at Tyndall AFB in the Florida panhandle. I'd like to get a look at it, I'll probably be living more up that way at that time.
                "Everyone's for a free Tibet, but no one's for freeing Tibet." -Mark Steyn. What an IMO-centric quote, eh?

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                • #9
                  Original buy for the ATF was 750 units, now they're down to somewhere in the region of 276, last I heard.

                  And its now called the 'F/A-22', in order to try and sell a few more airframes. Lock-mart are also trying to flog the idea of a F/B-22, sort of a F-117/F-111 replacement.

                  Turkey, the EF is an outstanding airframe, and the fact that 4 airforces are buying it already means that it will be updated as time goes on. Right now its probably best regarded as a 'super F-15' in terms of capacity, after its gets AMSAR and Meteor around 2009-2010, it will be truly first class.
                  Last edited by Aidan; 7 March 2004, 19:34.

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                  • #10
                    True Aidan, but what I really want to see is how the Typhoon squares up to the F-22, Now to make that look silly,....that would be something :D .
                    "We will hold out until our last bullet is spent. Could do with some whiskey"
                    Radio transmission, siege of Jadotville DR Congo. September 1961.
                    Illegitimi non carborundum

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      xxxxx
                      Last edited by lordinajamjar; 22 November 2004, 14:16.

                      "When you arise in the morning, think of what a precious privilege it is to be alive - to breathe, to think, to enjoy, to love."


                      Marcus Aurelius Roman Emperor (161 to 180 A.D.)

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                      • #12
                        xxxxx
                        Last edited by lordinajamjar; 22 November 2004, 14:16.

                        "When you arise in the morning, think of what a precious privilege it is to be alive - to breathe, to think, to enjoy, to love."


                        Marcus Aurelius Roman Emperor (161 to 180 A.D.)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          xxxxx
                          Last edited by lordinajamjar; 22 November 2004, 14:17.

                          "When you arise in the morning, think of what a precious privilege it is to be alive - to breathe, to think, to enjoy, to love."


                          Marcus Aurelius Roman Emperor (161 to 180 A.D.)

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            xxxxx
                            Last edited by lordinajamjar; 22 November 2004, 14:17.

                            "When you arise in the morning, think of what a precious privilege it is to be alive - to breathe, to think, to enjoy, to love."


                            Marcus Aurelius Roman Emperor (161 to 180 A.D.)

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