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  • Move it all to Shannon.......sell off Baldonnel. Ensure the Don goes for full market value with proceeds ring fenced for new airbase, other defence infrastructure and equipment projects and re-location costs for current personnel.

    Legacy dumps and contaminated soil haven't stopped a single development from going ahead ever. Look at IFSC and the soon to be new town at Poolbeg. Even Haulbowline has been remediated for the park.
    Fate whispers to the warrior, "There is a storm coming"

    And the warrior whispers back "I am the storm".

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    • Tivoli docks had it's oil storage tank farm (and jetty) removed about ten years ago, old soil was dug up, replaced with hardcore, they expect to build high density residential there within the decade.
      German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
      German 2: Private? I am a general!
      German 1: That is the bad news.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by X-RayOne View Post
        Move it all to Shannon.......sell off Baldonnel. Ensure the Don goes for full market value with proceeds ring fenced for new airbase, other defence infrastructure and equipment projects and re-location costs for current personnel.
        The government almost never gets full market value.
        Any future property sales should be part of an overall defence plan not just based upon one criteria such as the need to operate large aircraft. The Don would not be the first on my list of sales as there are other city centre properties that would be better located elsewhere and would raise more cash.

        What must not be overlooked is the position of the Don to some other key defence assets, it is close to the Glen so flight times to the major training area are short. And it close to the Curragh and the ARW which should not be overlooked. Now the ARW and helicopters could be moved to Gormo but then it would have to be part of a more major reorganisation.

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        • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
          Retain Bal for rotary wing and secure VIP movements.
          Just move the rest of operational flying to Shannon.
          The DF would lose Bal in that case as no justification for retention.

          Those flights would have to go to Dublin Airport or Weston (which isn’t 24/7)

          Comment


          • Originally posted by DeV View Post
            The DF would lose Bal in that case as no justification for retention.

            Those flights would have to go to Dublin Airport or Weston (which isn’t 24/7)
            Surely carrying out all pilot training, line maintenance and administration is justification enough? If the airfield you are sending them to isn't 24 hour, why are you sending them there?
            German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
            German 2: Private? I am a general!
            German 1: That is the bad news.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
              Surely carrying out all pilot training, line maintenance and administration is justification enough? If the airfield you are sending them to isn't 24 hour, why are you sending them there?
              So all the fixed wing ops in Shannon, all the training and RW in Baldonnel???

              It’s had enough to run the AC from 1 location with a detachment to Athlone

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              • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                So all the fixed wing ops in Shannon, all the training and RW in Baldonnel???

                It’s had enough to run the AC from 1 location with a detachment to Athlone
                It should be easier. Shannon ops can avail of civvy operated facilities, including 24hr ATC, fire & rescue(with some input from AC perhaps).
                The staffing issues should not impact on planning and operations. The issues just mean someone outside the organisation messed up.
                German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
                German 2: Private? I am a general!
                German 1: That is the bad news.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by X-RayOne View Post
                  Move it all to Shannon.......sell off Baldonnel. Ensure the Don goes for full market value with proceeds ring fenced for new airbase, other defence infrastructure and equipment projects and re-location costs for current personnel.

                  Legacy dumps and contaminated soil haven't stopped a single development from going ahead ever. Look at IFSC and the soon to be new town at Poolbeg. Even Haulbowline has been remediated for the park.
                  True enough but no-one actually lives in the park at Haulbowline.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by pilatus View Post
                    Aswell as a squadron of smashed up Hurricanes!
                    The original aircraft dump extended from the windsock, out past the Tower, to the edge of the road down to the Officer's Mess,about 400 yards. A row of billets stood there, called Dixieland and the last two aircraft, Provosts 181 and 184, stood there for years until they were taken away. Most of it was either bulldozed flat, dug out or simply hauled away when the fuel farm went in. Anything viable was removed ages ago. When the Museum was established, a lot of "souvenired" stuff was returned, that came from those wrecks and a lot of old equipment was brought from other storage places. If there's anything left under the ground between the new hangar and the fuel farm, it's probably well beyond redemption.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
                      What must not be overlooked is the position of the Don to some other key defence assets, it is close to the Glen so flight times to the major training area are short. And it close to the Curragh and the ARW which should not be overlooked. Now the ARW and helicopters could be moved to Gormo but then it would have to be part of a more major reorganisation.
                      All of which could be achieved from Dublin with negligible extra flight time (minutes). A similar secure military site for a rotary detachment, like IRCG heli base, and make use of existing ATC, fire rescue, etc. Probably no more complicated than EAS detachment to Athlone.

                      Definitely easily done if there is a will and effort made. Plus moving rest of Corps to Shannon allows for expansion of the Corps as a whole.
                      Fate whispers to the warrior, "There is a storm coming"

                      And the warrior whispers back "I am the storm".

                      Comment


                      • The thing with moving everything to Shannon, is it must be done on a phased basis. Moving the Air Corps out of Gormo demonstrated that.
                        Telling people "ok, you work in the mid west now. You can either sell your home and uproot your family from their friends and move to the other side of the country, or take your chance renting locally and making the weekly commute while you run 2 homes on one wage." will just force experienced people out.
                        German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
                        German 2: Private? I am a general!
                        German 1: That is the bad news.

                        Comment


                        • You could move the helicopters to the Curragh; build a hangar and a hardstand and a small fuel tank installation. You could operate the Garda helis from Dublin Airport or Weston or Knocksedan or the GHQ in the Phoenix Park. The rest can be moved easily enough. No shortage of people in Baldonnel who'd quit Dublin/Kildare/Wicklow in a heartbeat to move West. No shortage of engineering talent in Shannon who'd happily work on the Air Corps fleet.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
                            You could move the helicopters to the Curragh; build a hangar and a hardstand and a small fuel tank installation. You could operate the Garda helis from Dublin Airport or Weston or Knocksedan or the GHQ in the Phoenix Park. The rest can be moved easily enough. No shortage of people in Baldonnel who'd quit Dublin/Kildare/Wicklow in a heartbeat to move West. No shortage of engineering talent in Shannon who'd happily work on the Air Corps fleet.
                            I wasn't going to say it.
                            I could say the DF would be reluctant to leave the Don after rebuilding all the Hangars, but they have done it elsewhere. Spend money renovating buildings only to walk away and leave the new building idle.
                            An ideal opportunity to share training resources with the folk in Lufthansa, if they are still training apprentices. Used to be a great number with SAL.
                            German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
                            German 2: Private? I am a general!
                            German 1: That is the bad news.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                              I wasn't going to say it.
                              I could say the DF would be reluctant to leave the Don after rebuilding all the Hangars, but they have done it elsewhere. Spend money renovating buildings only to walk away and leave the new building idle.
                              An ideal opportunity to share training resources with the folk in Lufthansa, if they are still training apprentices. Used to be a great number with SAL.
                              Lufthansa had a engine overhaul facility in Rathcoole (close to Don) that closed in 2014 they were looking at opening a plant in Celbridge earlier this year not sure if it went ahead

                              Comment


                              • Airmotive overhauled CFM 56s and P&W across the road overhauled jet engine core casings;both gone. Both made money but someone decided that moving the facility overseas made more sense. Ireland punches above it's weight in aviation because it always generates first-class aircrew and technicians of all types. We have always been first class overhaulers of aircraft and components. It's just that political or accountancy decisions tend to rob us of work.

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