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  • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
    https://en.calameo.com/read/0061942696613bd9e1467

    Article in the latest issue of Signal, about what Ireland needs in terms of military transport aircraft. (And how it can be delivered, more importantly).
    Page 40.
    Had a flick through this issue, and have to say, am mightily impressed with the standard of the magazine and some of the stuff going on in the Defence Forces
    "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

    Comment


    • Yet again the government looking for a solution. The Dutch send a C-130 today across to the UK, will we be using our airlifters again?

      https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2020...repatriations/

      Comment


      • Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
        Yet again the government looking for a solution. The Dutch send a C-130 today across to the UK, will we be using our airlifters again?

        https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2020...repatriations/
        Can we just copy and paste all the discussion from earlier this year.

        Nothing will happen. Nothing will be purchased.

        DCOS Sp, as shown in an FOI, turned down a second PC12 purchase earlier this year due to "lack of hangar space" among a few other things.

        If anyone here or elsewhere thinks there will be anything meaningful (C130, A319/320, KC390 etc) will be purchased now or in the future, you are only codding yourselves.

        At least it will be Craughwell and Lavery something to rabbit on about on twitter.

        Comment


        • The Decision was not DCOS, he merely agreed with the Sec Gen's decision to only get one, when the option was one or none.
          For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
            The Decision was not DCOS, he merely agreed with the Sec Gen's decision to only get one, when the option was one or none.
            The FOI thread states that initially the Sec Gen "was supportive of the idea of purchasing on aircraft but not entirely convinced of the purchase of two" or words to that effect.

            This was then routed to the DF and the response from the DF (by DCOS Sp) was that they should purchase one, and not two, because they wouldn't have the hangar space. He gave the Sec Gen the answer he wanted to hear.

            No hangar in Costume Barracks but they seemed to figure it out.

            Plenty of serving and retired personnel are quick to point the finger at the DoD but senior DF management don't always cover themselves in glory.

            If someone isnt "entirely convinced" then the effort should be made to convince them. But then again, if you want to reach the top and your modis operandi is to not rock the board by disagreeing with your boss, then this is what happens.

            Given the amount of flying 280 has done since its introduction, I think a second airframe would have been a prudent acquisition.

            Comment


            • two or three "consular" flights mentioned on the News at 6.

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              • I've gone through this before, that is not the case.
                For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                  I've gone through this before, that is not the case.
                  We will agree to disagree.

                  DCOS Sp's "recommendation" is on record anyway.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Chuck View Post
                    We will agree to disagree.

                    DCOS Sp's "recommendation" is on record anyway.
                    Off you go so.
                    Show it.
                    For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                      Off you go so.
                      Show it.
                      The Government was offered a special deal to buy two new aircraft for more than €8m but opted to buy only one amid concerns including a shortage of available hangar space.


                      Internal emails show the Secretary General of the Department of Defence was "comfortable" with the idea of acquiring one new aircraft but "not necessarily convinced" of the rationale for two.

                      A later business case said one aircraft - purchased for €5.23m including VAT - would actually be better because of restricted hangar space available at Casement Aerodrome in Dublin.


                      Chain of command:

                      DoD Sec Gen
                      DCOS Sp
                      GOC AC

                      Seems there was a strong drive to acquire two and then the narrative changed in line with the wishes of the SecGen.

                      Happy to read your version of events.
                      Last edited by Chuck; 22 December 2020, 00:51.

                      Comment


                      • I stand corrected.
                        I had not seen document 6 in this collection, just a later document which gave the view DCOS was agreeing with the (early) recommendation from Sec Gen.
                        Feck sake. 2nd aircraft delivered at an excellent price, quickly and ready for use and you decline dye to short term manning and parking issues?
                        My sincere apologies.
                        For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                          I stand corrected.
                          I had not seen document 6 in this collection, just a later document which gave the view DCOS was agreeing with the (early) recommendation from Sec Gen.
                          Feck sake. 2nd aircraft delivered at an excellent price, quickly and ready for use and you decline dye to short term manning and parking issues?
                          My sincere apologies.
                          Can we still be friends?

                          Its absolutely ****ing amazing how a civil servant can dictate the purchase of an aircraft.

                          The case was made, the money was there, there IS room to park it. And yet, he isn't convinced.

                          If you are top brass in the DF you take what you can get and deal with it when it arrives.

                          This is completely ignoring the fact that there was already trained techs and pilots on site. This wasn't purchasing two brand new types off the shelf.

                          Absolutely boggles the mind.

                          Comment


                          • How long would it have taken to dig up some grass, pour concrete and erect a suitable structure to park it in? If that was the primary concern.

                            And where is the SecGen now? Enjoying a massive pension and not a single care in the world. All the same senior civil servants named in that FOI are there, as are all the general staff.

                            Comment


                            • I can't picture the NS saying in 2015 "OK so I know we only asked for 3 new ships and you are offering us a fourth, where would we park it? We'll have to park up the older ships to crew it, no thanks".
                              Knowing the CoS, it's the exact opposite of what he would have done when he was DCOS.
                              For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Chuck View Post
                                How long would it have taken to dig up some grass, pour concrete and erect a suitable structure to park it in? If that was the primary concern.

                                And where is the SecGen now? Enjoying a massive pension and not a single care in the world. All the same senior civil servants named in that FOI are there, as are all the general staff.
                                In fairness to the majority of contracts branch, they provided all the options, and came back with the purchase of 2 aircraft being the best option per GOC AC. Even going so far as to source low hour type for lease (something which would have been the norm in the 70s and 80s, while awaiting delivery of a new type). Sec Gen though seems to have had the final say, and told DCOS early on, that one was the solution he was seeking to arrive at.
                                For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                                Comment

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