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  • #16
    Well, Goldiefish seems to have justifiably split the post so lets state the question for our posters just so we are clear

    "Does the IAC require it own tactical transport ability in support of military operations?"

    Well thats the basic question.Points to consider
    -are the number of missions that a transport would perform suuficient to justify outright purchase of a transport
    -would the transport aircraft have to be multi-role ie MP etc, to be cost effective
    -what size of aircraft would be justifiable? CASA 235 or Hercules or something inbetween
    -secondhand or new?
    -could the IAC use the transport for commercial purposes to "pay its way" or would this infringe on certain laws?
    -should we continue to rely on friendly nations for troop transport as oppsed to having our own ability

    Lets just assume for the purpose of the exercise that money was available for the purchase of an aircraft up to the size of a Hercules and for no other purpose, so should it be used or not?
    Si vis pacem para bellum

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    • #17
      Cheeky fecker. I did no such thing. Why am I always blamed when there are 5 other people capable of doing it?

      I demand an apology and compensation.


      Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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      • #18
        Sorry I assumed you did Goldie.Well it needed it anyway.
        Compensation you say? How about I agree to only post things you like for the next 48 hours?Thats the best I can do. :p

        Actually, change that.I will provide justifiable reasons to support Goldie in all military related matters that he makes comment upon no matter what they are (within reason) for the next 2 days ie 22:30 Sunday night.
        Last edited by ForkTailedDevil; 14 May 2004, 23:37.
        Si vis pacem para bellum

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        • #19
          FTD,

          Maybe a question to answer your question, should the Irish Government send Irish troops to trouble spots without the ability to extract them rapidly if everyting goes wrong?

          We've got away with it for 40 years or so, maybe they're right, let's hope so.

          Hasn't Austria just bought 3, ex-RAF, C-130Ks for just this reason?


          IAS

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          • #20
            The reason the government sends troops to places is because it has already all gone wrong.The defense forces have been providing sterling service in every corner of the globe for decades without having the IAC need to get them out BUT your troops are still deployed in a warzones, whether they are quiet now or not.The government seem to operate on the assumption that
            "we aren't using this capability right now so why do we need to have it?"
            When the correct response would be
            "we can't always rely on other nations to be prepared to extract or re-enforce our soldiers so we need a long-range organic tactical transport capability to ensure the safey of our troops wherever they are in the world"

            Yes, Austria just took possesion of three Hercules to support foreign deployments.Personally I can't think of anywhere that Austrian troops are peacekeeping a the minute but they do have 3 Hercules to call on to move them there and back.The Austrians have also purchased 9 (i think) Blackhawks for transport and civil assistance and 18 Eurofighters solely for internal air policing.Nice.
            Si vis pacem para bellum

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            • #21
              Fork, I agree with your sentiments. UN mandates, under many (but not all) circumstances come when relative stability has been achieved, or at least another force is already policing (such as the US in Haiti or France's operations in Africa). Therefore, since Ireland only operates under UN direction, they get there relatively late, when peace enforcing (as some here have called it) is over. They are peacekeepers, that's why they're there. I personally think Ireland should get rid of their "neutrality" and feel free to help the world beyond the UN, but then again I don't run the gov't.
              "Everyone's for a free Tibet, but no one's for freeing Tibet." -Mark Steyn. What an IMO-centric quote, eh?

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              • #22
                I split the thread, being the AC section's mod and all that...
                "The dolphins were monkeys that didn't like the land, walked back to the water, went back from the sand."

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                • #23
                  Yeah, come to think of it saying you split it would have made more sense.
                  Oh, also, I just remembered that there are Austrian peacekkeper in the Balkans.
                  Si vis pacem para bellum

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                  • #24
                    Does anyone remember the rumour from about 4 years back concerning the Aer Lingus Fokkers? From what I recall it basically went along the lines that the Air Corps would be getting two for transport. Alas, like so many rumours, it proved completely baseless in the end.

                    The new one doing the rounds is Two additional Casas being bought. Seeing as the minister hasnt even made a murmour about this, I think we can safely assume it too is baseless. Unfortunately.

                    Personally I would like to see the Air Corps equipped with a decent transport wing, a small mix of Hercules/Cn-235's/Cessna Caravans. I think if they had the equipment they damn well would find a use for them all. We are a first world country and given the resources the Air Corps could provide a great deal of support to peace keeping missions, not to mention internal security.

                    Yes turning the Air Corps towards military missions, who woulda thunk it.

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                    • #25
                      1 or 2 Hercules might not be a bad idea.
                      "Everyone's for a free Tibet, but no one's for freeing Tibet." -Mark Steyn. What an IMO-centric quote, eh?

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                      • #26
                        I remember the Fokker rumour was quite strong at the 2000 air spectacular...then again so was the one about us buying EHI01s..


                        Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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                        • #27
                          1 hercules, 2 CASA 295/C27 Spartan and 6 Islander all in transport configuration for a MATS unit alongside Air Corps 1.Hercules for peacekeeping support fitted with a proper self defence system.2 CASA 295/C27 Spartan for lugging largish things around Ireland and abroad, some long range MP capability and paratroop dropping and finally the six Islander for general run-arounds on the island moving a few troops and bits of kit here and there.
                          Si vis pacem para bellum

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                          • #28
                            Ireland needs something like C-130 or A400M - the intelligent way into that is with a joint purchace and operating/training/servicing pool with other European states. the expensive, wheels-will-come-off way into that is to buy one out of the bargain bin, then discover that it costs a fortune in cash and people to keep it in the air, and you'll probably find after you've bought it that some bedrock piece of equipment won't fit in it.

                            i wouldn't be that surprised if Ireland leases a stripped out C-295, and then quietly gives it back when its discovered quite how limited such an aircraft is in airlift terms, but the DOD will blame the Army for not using it - ignoring the fact that the Army told the DOD that it would be a waste of money because it its so small no one would be able to use it.

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                            • #29
                              A400m
                              [ATTACH]8782[/ATTACH]

                              c390
                              [ATTACH]8783[/ATTACH]

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                              • #30
                                Have the 10 withdrawn RAF C130J standard length aircraft all found homes yet?

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