Military transport aircraft

[Sparky42]

So we had the Minister with this tonight:

Asked if Ireland should have a heavy lift plane to evacuate citizens, he said the problem in Afghanistan was not getting people on planes but getting them to the airport safely and having an Irish plane would not have made a difference in recent days.

What about the entire week before? What about being able to lift our own people out?
https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0826/12...d-afghanistan/
Yeah there's feck all chance this has changed anything.

[CTU]

So we had the Minister with this tonight:

What about the entire week before? What about being able to lift our own people out?
https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0826/12...d-afghanistan/
Yeah there's feck all chance this has changed anything.

No Minister, The problem was trying to coordinate the evacuation from over 1000 miles away by phone, if that team was on the ground last week, they would have had clearer picture, last week it was 24 people looking for assistance, last night the number left behind is 75??? Also whats all this sh*te about "partner nations", I thought Ireland was "neutral" and as a result had an opt out on EU "military projects", I don't always agree with a certain Senator, but he is spot on with the Freeloader comments...

I was hoping that the resulting DFA debriefing would be a eye opener for the Minister, and show what they could do if the had access to this type of air assests (Rapid Response Corps etc.. ), but all I see with the above is the DoD is already trying to circle the wagons, and any review being bounced down the line because they are awaiting the report from the Commission on the DF.

[na grohmiti]

So we had the Minister with this tonight:

What about the entire week before? What about being able to lift our own people out?
https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0826/12...d-afghanistan/
Yeah there's feck all chance this has changed anything.

Very disappointing from the Minister last night, particularly in light of the Man interviewed later, From Limerick,stuck in A-Stan, with his mother, who needs to send her Visa application(Paper, not electronic) to .... Abu Dhabi.

[Laners]

Ireland wasn't alone in having to depend on other countries to assist in airlifting it's people out , both Austria and Switzerland were hitching a lift from other countries due to not having suitable aircraft of their own .

[CTU]

Ireland wasn't alone in having to depend on other countries to assist in airlifting it's people out , both Austria and Switzerland were hitching a lift from other countries due to not having suitable aircraft of their own .

Switzerland don't usally do "overseas military" (them being ultra neutral and all) but saw the need to send something out last week to get everyone they needed to out, and from I see they managed to!

Ireland on the other hand sends troops on peacekeeping operations on a regular basis with no organic transport assets for unforseen events and refused to send anyone untill it became obvious that "plan a" (ringing it in from Abu Dhabi) was not working and the situation on the ground was becoming untenable and then too late to get everyone out.

As for Austria, was something wrong with their 3 x C-130s that they are looking to replace by 2030??

[GoneToTheCanner]

so they send the smallest jet....

[DeV]

CTU

This is a (worldwide) diplomatic exercise supported by the military, why is the military involved? It is a insecure situation in a war zone and there are also significant numbers of troops to be withdrawn (most of whom were there before the last 2 weeks).

“Partner nations”?
we are an EU member state, which has ops on the ground (we also participated in EUPOL Afghanistan when it was running)
we were a contributor to both ISAF and Op Resolute Support

Re Switzerland have military personnel in 19 countries (mainly Kosovo & Bosnia)

[CTU]

CTU

“Partner nations”?
we are an EU member state, which has ops on the ground (we also participated in EUPOL Afghanistan when it was running)
we were a contributor to both ISAF and Op Resolute Support

Sorry but, EU members who wouldn't ratify euro treaties without assurances on our "Neutrality",
A Sovereign Independent Nation which uses "neutrality" as an excuse NOT to fund defence and who refuses to join NATO but relies on NATO members to unofficially proctect her airspace and undersea resources, who's government is more interested in funding a horse ridding school for wanabe toffs, memorial gardens to singers, or even sending "experts on stone wall building" to teach wall building to an island where the locals have been building them for hundreds if not thousands of years, (yes this really happened, I saw it with my own eyes and the locals found it so funny they turned it into an tongue in cheek tourist attraction, until it collapsed in a bad storm a couple of years later, surprisingly the ones the islanders built stayed up).

For a country that is approching its 100 year anniversary, it's about time it's leaders grow up and cop on to themselves.

[meridian]

According to this online Forbes article, Austria did send on of it's C130s to Afghanistan

* https://www.forbes.com/sites/sebasti...an-evacuation/

Simon Coveney was on Pat Kenny on Newstalk this morning and Pat brought up the question of Air Transport. Simon started out with a similar answer to that on Prime Time last night, then acknowledged the current Commission on Defense, said that it would be considered in addition to other items, and said that he was pro and increase in the defense budget. Hopefully it will move things in the right direction

[DeV]

Sorry but, EU members who wouldn't ratify euro treaties without assurances on our "Neutrality",
A Sovereign Independent Nation which uses "neutrality" as an excuse NOT to fund defence and who refuses to join NATO but relies on NATO members to unofficially proctect her airspace and undersea resources, who's government is more interested in funding a horse ridding school for wanabe toffs, memorial gardens to singers, or even sending "experts on stone wall building" to teach wall building to an island where the locals have been building them for hundreds if not thousands of years, (yes this really happened, I saw it with my own eyes and the locals found it so funny they turned it into an tongue in cheek tourist attraction, until it collapsed in a bad storm a couple of years later, surprisingly the ones the islanders built stayed up).

For a country that is approching its 100 year anniversary, it's about time it's leaders grow up and cop on to themselves.

As is our right as a sovereign state, as other member states do on other issues (Denmark, Poland and the U.K. while they were members).

We are able to rely on NATO, not because they are friendly (although they are) and want to defend Ireland but because it is very much in their interests to do so. In much the same way, Iceland for example is a NATO member has a military of <500, military spend of 0.26% of GDP and has no navy or Air Force to speak off.



do I agree that we should be securing our land, sea and air ourselves absolutely (including the kind of capability we are talking about in this thread)!

do we have “partners”? Absolutely

[CTU]

As is our right as a sovereign state, as other member states do on other issues (Denmark, Poland and the U.K. while they were members).

We are able to rely on NATO, not because they are friendly (although they are) and want to defend Ireland but because it is very much in their interests to do so. In much the same way, Iceland for example is a NATO member has a military of <500, military spend of 0.26% of GDP and has no navy or Air Force to speak off.

Iceland are members of NATO who pay for the privlidge, Ireland is not. We saw it in the last US adminstration that there was disquiet about some NATO members not pulling their weight money wise, soon they will ask the same about Ireland, especialy with the corporation tax questions. Sooner or later this attitude of can't someone else do it for free will backfire.

[DeV]

Iceland are members of NATO who pay for the privlidge, Ireland is not. We saw it in the last US adminstration that there was disquiet about some NATO members not pulling their weight money wise, soon they will ask the same about Ireland, especialy with the corporation tax questions. Sooner or later this attitude of can't someone else do it for free will backfire.

Not disagreeing with you!

just highlighting the fact that NATO even have freeloaders who can’t defend themselves, don’t pay for it (Iceland’s % of GDP is lower than ours) and others tolerate it and defend them….. because it is in their (NATO’s) strategic interests.

it is in NATO’s strategic interests to “defend” us too, big differences being we are outside the club and don’t pay in.

[CTU]

Not disagreeing with you!

just highlighting the fact that NATO even have freeloaders who can’t defend themselves, don’t pay for it (Iceland’s % of GDP is lower than ours) and others tolerate it and defend them….. because it is in their (NATO’s) strategic interests.

it is in NATO’s strategic interests to “defend” us too, big differences being we are outside the club and don’t pay in.

Final point on this one (I dont want to drag this off topic to much) just becasue Iceland dont spend 2% on defence (only a guide not a requirement), doesn't mean they dont make other finanacal contrubutions, also they have a bilatral defence treaty with the USA so yes they are tolarated, while Ireland has a Gentlemens agreement with the UK. also the GIUK gap is more important to NATO, since the Ruskies have to get past it to get to Ireland.

[Charlie252]

We may now have a once in a lifetime opportunity to do something really positive.

We have an Awareness from both the politicians and general Public that we have a requirement for a Military Transport aircraft.

Critically our nearest neighbor is in the process of offloading some heavily used, but still quite young C-130's.

This is a time for bold and decisive leadership from the DF, DOD and the Government to grab this opportunity, and make an investment in the DF that will pay dividends for at least 30 Years.

Hangers, Runway Performance and all sorts of other points of contention can be sorted out later, but the push should be buy the aircraft and then figure out the finer details.

The only question should be how many??

[Graylion]

We may now have a once in a lifetime opportunity to do something really positive.

We have an Awareness from both the politicians and general Public that we have a requirement for a Military Transport aircraft.

Critically our nearest neighbor is in the process of offloading some heavily used, but still quite young C-130's.

...

Heavily used is the keyword here. Buying them strikes me as false economy. I'd rather use that awareness to buy something new that has the kind of range we need. And maybe is not a military bird.