Military transport aircraft

[Sparky42]

We may now have a once in a lifetime opportunity to do something really positive.

We have an Awareness from both the politicians and general Public that we have a requirement for a Military Transport aircraft.

Critically our nearest neighbor is in the process of offloading some heavily used, but still quite young C-130's.

This is a time for bold and decisive leadership from the DF, DOD and the Government to grab this opportunity, and make an investment in the DF that will pay dividends for at least 30 Years.

Hangers, Runway Performance and all sorts of other points of contention can be sorted out later, but the push should be buy the aircraft and then figure out the finer details.

The only question should be how many??

Well that’s not going to happen.

[Anzac]

Heavily used is the keyword here. Buying them strikes me as false economy. I'd rather use that awareness to buy something new that has the kind of range we need. And maybe is not a military bird.

The RAF C-130J-30 C5's have averaged the normal 600 annual flying hours per annum mostly in the strategic role with lower landing cycles than the RAF C-130J C4 fleet.

[DeV]

Another option could be MOVEMENT COORDINATION CENTRE EUROPE

Austria, Sweden and Finland are all members

my understanding is that you need to put as many flying hours in as you take advantage of but I believe that it covers both military and commercial (so we have a chartered commercial troop rotation flight to Lebanon, it could also carry some Finnish kit)

https://www.mcce-mil.org/wp-content/...t-A-Glance.pdf

[Graylion]

Another option could be MOVEMENT COORDINATION CENTRE EUROPE

Austria, Sweden and Finland are all members

my understanding is that you need to put as many flying hours in as you take advantage of but I believe that it covers both military and commercial (so we have a chartered commercial troop rotation flight to Lebanon, it could also carry some Finnish kit)

https://www.mcce-mil.org/wp-content/...t-A-Glance.pdf

Doesn't that violate the triple lock? Same as SAC, EATC or the German A400M thing would?

[DeV]

Doesn't that violate the triple lock? Same as SAC, EATC or the German A400M thing would?

Quite possibly but depends on the numbers (<12?), actually basing personnel overseas (as opposed to a flight to somewhere overseas), actually participating in Ops (eg must have a UN mandate) etc

[Graylion]

Quite possibly but depends on the numbers (<12?), actually basing personnel overseas (as opposed to a flight to somewhere overseas), actually participating in Ops (eg must have a UN mandate) etc

Wouldn't basing permanent staff with SAC be an issue here for instance? And we cannot have our staff that has been deputised go "naaah, UN missions only please". Don't think we'd be welcome under those conditions.

[DeV]

Wouldn't basing permanent staff with SAC be an issue here for instance? And we cannot have our staff that has been deputised go "naaah, UN missions only please". Don't think we'd be welcome under those conditions.

We have personnel permanently based with NATO, the EU and UN (New York) currently.

it depends on how many (>12, means no UN mandate required) and their mission (http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2.../en/print.html)

which is why membership of any of the partnerships type airlift options may not be a runner without legislative change

[Graylion]

We have personnel permanently based with NATO, the EU and UN (New York) currently.

it depends on how many (>12, means no UN mandate required) and their mission (http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2.../en/print.html)

which is why membership of any of the partnerships type airlift options may not be a runner without legislative change

That's what I figured. grrrrr ;-)

[Sparky42]

One more reason I think the Triple Lock should never have been created and should be removed.

[EUFighter]

The triple lock need not apply. For example the agreement with the Germans for access to A400Ms could only be that we supply some aircrew, 3 per aircraft. Thus the deployment could be kept small. Let the Germans do all the logistic stuff to keep the aircraft flying and only have Irish crews for Irish tasked missions.

[Graylion]

The triple lock need not apply. For example the agreement with the Germans for access to A400Ms could only be that we supply some aircrew, 3 per aircraft. Thus the deployment could be kept small. Let the Germans do all the logistic stuff to keep the aircraft flying and only have Irish crews for Irish tasked missions.

If they only aboard for Irish tasked missions what use would they be? ? They'd have no currency.

[Anzac]

If they only aboard for Irish tasked missions what use would they be? ? They'd have no currency.

Yeah its a bit like the Kiwi's going up to the Aussies and saying here is the petrol money. We are going to borrow your C-17's for a few days as we have a job to do. Be back Wednesday.

The reply would be Foxtrot Oscar.

[madmark]

https://theaviationist.com/2021/09/09/desa-brochure/
https://assets.publishing.service.go...chure_2021.pdf

i wonder could some oof thiis be of use?

[GoneToTheCanner]

Buy at least half a dozen as you may have to cannibalize a couple to generate parts for the best of them and send a team of outright cutthroats to check them over and deep scrutinise the logbooks and tech records,as well as find former mechs and aircrew,get them down the pub and fill them with drink to find out which ones are good and which ones are hangar queens. That's when you get to hear the off-the-books stuff. Why is one aircraft eating computers and electrical parts? why is another constantly leaking when they fly through rain? all the fun stuff that eats up money, hangar and tech time. Don't ever take the former operator's word for it.

[EUFighter]

Yeah its a bit like the Kiwi's going up to the Aussies and saying here is the petrol money. We are going to borrow your C-17's for a few days as we have a job to do. Be back Wednesday.

The reply would be Foxtrot Oscar.

No, not the same. We would be part of the A400M sharing to which Hungary recently joined up too. Due to our stupid triple lock limitation we could only deploy a limited number of people to Lechfeld, best only air crew, with the exception of the month of September when "special training" would take place.