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  • Did they not sell them all to Myanmar in January? (a snip at under $40m)
    For now, everything hangs on the CoDF report, still possibly 2 weeks from the Ministers desk.

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    • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
      Did they not sell them all to Myanmar in January? (a snip at under $40m)
      It would appear so
      https://www.scramble.nl/military-new...roversial-deal

      https://jfm-files.s3.us-east-2.amazo...6%20Nsheet.pdf


      oh well, Ex RAF C130Js it is….good call DoD

      Comment


      • Originally posted by DeV View Post

        And an airlifter is uneconomical and uncomfortable for troop rotations
        well, if it was the last flight outa Dodge,you wouldn't care if it was a C-47. You'd suffer a few hours in a C130 if it got you out of a dump and into a safer place. If all you want is a simple charter aircraft four times a year, to shift a Company sized force,the world is awash with capacity. It all depends on how hard you want to get to some place. You'd justify the cost of a C130 by keeping it busy, say, 600-1200 hrs a year and you'd find that costs would even out. If it spent it's life sat in Dublin or Shannon or Baldonnel, doing sod all except training, it'd drive the hourly costs up. If you even went and "bought" hours of C130 time from the RAF or other Euro operators, Netjets style, then you'd not have the capital costs.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post

          well, if it was the last flight outa Dodge,you wouldn't care if it was a C-47. You'd suffer a few hours in a C130 if it got you out of a dump and into a safer place. If all you want is a simple charter aircraft four times a year, to shift a Company sized force,the world is awash with capacity. It all depends on how hard you want to get to some place. You'd justify the cost of a C130 by keeping it busy, say, 600-1200 hrs a year and you'd find that costs would even out. If it spent it's life sat in Dublin or Shannon or Baldonnel, doing sod all except training, it'd drive the hourly costs up. If you even went and "bought" hours of C130 time from the RAF or other Euro operators, Netjets style, then you'd not have the capital costs.
          absolutely but I’m talking about regular troop rotations. In more punishing & less secure environments (eg Chad, Afghanistan etc) a tactical aircraft (eg C130) may be used to do the last leg but an airliner will do the longer haul.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by DeV View Post

            absolutely but I’m talking about regular troop rotations. In more punishing & less secure environments (eg Chad, Afghanistan etc) a tactical aircraft (eg C130) may be used to do the last leg but an airliner will do the longer haul.
            C-130J-30 can do regular rotations and tactical tasks. Palletised Airline seats available from several manufacturors. If one type is required this would be the ideal type any amount of established support providers.

            For example flight time Dublin to Beirut at C-130J-30 cruise speed is 6 hrs 30 mins versus 5 hrs 30 mins at airliner speeds.

            Example of 15 seats on pallet by 5 is 75 passengers leaving three pallet spaces for baggage. Although not a perfect solution is more than capable, I believe the Danish used this system for their Afghan rotations.

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            • along with ear defenders for all,better toilets aboard and better food....

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              • Originally posted by Spark23 View Post

                C-130J-30 can do regular rotations and tactical tasks. Palletised Airline seats available from several manufacturors. If one type is required this would be the ideal type any amount of established support providers.

                For example flight time Dublin to Beirut at C-130J-30 cruise speed is 6 hrs 30 mins versus 5 hrs 30 mins at airliner speeds.

                Example of 15 seats on pallet by 5 is 75 passengers leaving three pallet spaces for baggage. Although not a perfect solution is more than capable, I believe the Danish used this system for their Afghan rotations.
                And more flights being required

                Comment


                • https://twitter.com/dfatirl/status/1...062409733?s=21

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                  • Again.
                    Nobody could have forseen it.
                    For now, everything hangs on the CoDF report, still possibly 2 weeks from the Ministers desk.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post

                      Again.
                      Nobody could have forseen it.
                      Aahh yes the Munich Agreement Excuse, followed then by the four-stage strategy.

                      DFA : What if the Minister insists we help them?
                      DOD : Then we follow the four-stage strategy.
                      DFA: What's that?
                      DOD: Standard DoD response in a time of crisis.
                      • In stage one we say nothing is going to happen.
                      • Stage two, we say something may be about to happen, but we should do nothing about it.
                      • In stage three, we say that maybe we should do something about it, but there's nothing we *can* do.
                      • Stage four, we say maybe there was something we could have done, but it's too late now.

                      If only someone would write a book or even a television show
                      Last edited by CTU; 2 December 2021, 17:50.
                      It was the year of fire...the year of destruction...the year we took back what was ours.
                      It was the year of rebirth...the year of great sadness...the year of pain...and the year of joy.
                      It was a new age...It was the end of history.
                      It was the year everything changed.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by CTU View Post
                        If only someone would write a book or even a television show
                        Yes Minister

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                        • Can we CPO this?

                          https://twitter.com/michaelkelly707/...102318084?s=21

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                          • Nice article on pages 50 - 53 of the Summer 2021 RACO Signal journal by Cathal Berry TD on the need for a national air transport capability (specifically mentioning the former WFP C295s offered). Clearly written articles like this sum up perfectly why the capability is needed, nicely done. I'd be in favour of obtaining additional C295s, but the most important thing is a proper study of the exact requirements of any national air transport, followed up by an appropriate platform (as many have mentioned above).

                            * https://en.calameo.com/read/006194269221c49660b01
                            Last edited by meridian; 27 December 2021, 10:03.

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                            • That article, combined with the other 2 articles on the Kabul operation, told from the DFA and DF side, are very telling.
                              It is clear that (having) our own aircraft would have made the entire operation far less complex.
                              For now, everything hangs on the CoDF report, still possibly 2 weeks from the Ministers desk.

                              Comment


                              • The downside is that when you go asking for big toys, the DoD will fob you off with budgetary excuses/costs of Covid/blame Finance/insert any excuse you can and they will point to the four PC-12s and tell you to sod off,you've got new toys already, make the best use of them......so the PC 12s will be run ragged to keep up with transport duties. The argument for a bigger transport aircraft is as old as time itself and the answer is self evident and I suspect, that if the hand of the DoD is forced, they will buy no more than a token 295 or even a well used ATR.

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