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  • Originally posted by gaff85 View Post
    The Future Mid-size Tactical Cargo (FMTC) program aims to replace the aging tactical aircraft currently in operation among European air forces, including the C-130 Hercules, the CASA C295

    So there looking at a design to replace the 295, and ours havent even been delivered yet....
    To be fair, if they make their schedule (and it’s a fairly big if) you are talking about the first units in the 2040s.

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    • Originally posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post

      and call it a Transall...oh, wait ;-)
      Well that's pretty much the niche in the marketplace that the C-130 Transall used to fill that a stretched, upgraded and up-powered C-27J NG could fill and all the building blocks are there in existence. Not as sexy as a new build blue sky program that might deliver sometimes in the 2040's though.

      Of course it is an Italian product and not a French-German product which is where this push for a Future Mid-size Tactical Cargo (FMTC) program from and if it is Italian then the French-Germans wont be able to have skin in the game as much as they did with the NH-90, the Tiger Attack helicopter and A400M.

      Italian aviation blogger Matteo Sanzani has an interesting take on it.

      https://www.blogbeforeflight.net/202...unch-fmtc.html

      ​​​​​​It is wrong to say that aircraft such as the Leonardo C-27J or the Lockheed Martin C-130J are too old today, over time they have received major updates in systems and equipment that have brought them on a par with the latest generation airlifters. Taking fighter jets as an example, it's like comparing an F-16 Block 10 to an F-16 Block 70, they are very different.

      The modernized cargo aircraft currently on the market are capable of effectively covering all military and civilian missions. It cannot be excluded that the feasibility study will lead the nations involved in the FMTC program to opt for an existing aircraft as it avoids huge development costs and is available much earlier.

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      • Why not take up where Boeing pulled out with the C390, and do whatever needs to be done to make it more european. (Small e). It comes out of the box ready for a multitude of roles already. Why re-invent it?
        Or do we really need a twin engine A400?
        For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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        • Originally posted by gaff85 View Post
          The Future Mid-size Tactical Cargo (FMTC) program aims to replace the aging tactical aircraft currently in operation among European air forces, including the C-130 Hercules, the CASA C295

          So there looking at a design to replace the 295, and ours havent even been delivered yet....
          the old rule of car design was that you started the Mk II design as soon as the Mk 1 was established and selling well with a tolerable level of complaints. equally so for aircraft.

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          • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
            Why not take up where Boeing pulled out with the C390, and do whatever needs to be done to make it more european. (Small e). It comes out of the box ready for a multitude of roles already. Why re-invent it?
            Or do we really need a twin engine A400?
            The 390 has a European commercial engine and everything except the actual hull and wings are straight out of the Embraer spares bin. That's the beauty of the 390; every nut, bolt, washer, split pin, screw, seal, seat, flight computers and software, seatbelts, doors, handles, trim, transparencies, floor mounts, cargo rails and thousands of other parts already exist in the existing Embraer commercial fleet and are widely available. You can fit a 390 into any military or even civil fleet in short order, as all the heavy lifting has been done by the previous generation of their aircraft. Fitting military spec stuff like defensive aids or a refuelling probe is already dealt with.

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            • Originally posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post

              The 390 has a European commercial engine and everything except the actual hull and wings are straight out of the Embraer spares bin. That's the beauty of the 390; every nut, bolt, washer, split pin, screw, seal, seat, flight computers and software, seatbelts, doors, handles, trim, transparencies, floor mounts, cargo rails and thousands of other parts already exist in the existing Embraer commercial fleet and are widely available. You can fit a 390 into any military or even civil fleet in short order, as all the heavy lifting has been done by the previous generation of their aircraft. Fitting military spec stuff like defensive aids or a refuelling probe is already dealt with.
              My thoughts exactly. Just needs to be licence built in the EU in the same way the brits made the Tucano British by having Shorts build it. Or the Yanks getting Textron to build the PC9M as the T6 Texan II . voila. sorted.
              For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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              • eeeehhh, no. The Tucano was a joke, as many of them were either shorter than specified or longer and it took something like 1200 engineering changes to make it "acceptable" to the RAF, while the rest of the world managed just fine with standard Embraers. The Beech T6 II was a classic "pork barrel" build and also featured unnecessary changes compared to the PC-9M. I'd buy standard 390s and ban unnecessary meddling with it.

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                • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post

                  My thoughts exactly. Just needs to be licence built in the EU in the same way the brits made the Tucano British by having Shorts build it. Or the Yanks getting Textron to build the PC9M as the T6 Texan II . voila. sorted.
                  Unless you are going to build several hundred of the things forget this "licence" idea, it makes no sense in a modern world. And in any case a between OGMA in Portugal and Aero Vodochody in the Czech Republic (Czechia) a large proportion of the C-390 airframe is made in the EU. Add in the systems and you get a percentage of EU manufactured parts not far from an Airbus. And remember the C-130 has only ever been built in the USA.

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                  • This was the kind of thing I was talking about.
                    Farnborough 2022: With Saudi Arabia in mind, Embraer and BAE Systems partner on C-390 | Shephard (shephardmedia.com)
                    Embraer and BAE Systems are looking to provide the C-390 to Saudi Arabia, under an agreement signed at the Farnborough International Airshow.


                    During the Farnborough International Airshow, Embraer and BAE Systems signed an agreement to collaborate on the C-390 Millennium transport aircraft with an eye to filling a potential future Saudi Arabian requirement.

                    The two companies signed a pair of MoUs: one to collaborate on the C-390 utilising BAE Systems' established relationships in the Middle East and the other to explore a defence variant of Embraer subsidiary Eve's electric eVTOL aircraft.

                    The pair specifically mentioned Saudi Arabia as a potential customer for the C-390 during a 19 July press briefing, eyeing a requirement when the country replaces its in-service Lockheed Martin C-130 Hercules aircraft.

                    Embraer president and CEO Jackson Schneider said: 'The MoU for the C-390 Millennium draws on the collective strengths of two leading aerospace players.

                    'Collaborating with BAE Systems will bring valuable international defence market experience and delivery and support to complex military projects together with Embraer's leading reputation in the design, development, and manufacturing of aircraft.'

                    BAE Systems air sector COO Ian Muldowney said the collaboration recognised the aircraft's capability combined with BAE System's 'extensive knowledge and understanding of international markets'.

                    During the briefing, Schneider confirmed that a previous global marketing agreement for the C-390 with Boeing had expired.

                    While Saudi Arabia has not released a requirement to replace its C-130s, Muldowney said Embraer and BAE Systems wanted to 'get ahead of the game'.

                    On industrial collaboration, the Embraer boss said the company was open to partnerships and whatever would best suit Saudi Arabia's future needs.

                    In June, the Dutch MoD decided to purchase C-390 aircraft to replace its retiring Lockheed C-130 Hercules.

                    On the eVTOL front, Embraer and BAE Systems will create a JV to pursue the development of a defence variant of the aircraft with Eve as the platform provider.

                    Potential applications for the electric-powered aircraft include the naval domain, by potentially negating the need for smaller vessels such as frigates and destroyers to carry aviation fuel for embarked helicopters.

                    The stealthy nature of the electric propulsion could also give the eVTOL platform utility in the special mission role.


                    For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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