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  • #46
    There is another way to get aircraft, leasing, just as Saab does with the JAS39's. Airbus is not only a manufacturer of aircraft it also finances and leases them so maybe that would be the route to go.

    So if we convince the Austrians, Finns and Swedes to develop a joint Airlift Wing with the following composition:
    6x C-295
    2x A321XLR
    12x A400M

    What would it cost per year?
    Based upon the commercial dry lease rates the bundle would cost around $331m p/a, the operational costs would add $98m p/a based upon 600hr/y, except the A321 which do double. That gives a yearly cost of around $429m, or €373m based upon a $/€ of 1.15.
    But we would not need to cover the entire cost, so let's say we take 20%, that means a yearly cost of $74m.
    Last edited by EUFighter; 21 May 2020, 09:34.

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    • #47
      Tabloids this morning saying it was fine to Charter a Gulfstream to Extradite a criminal to the USA for the sale of Rhino Horns.
      And yet our 2 officers remain stuck in Africa...
      German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
      German 2: Private? I am a general!
      German 1: That is the bad news.

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
        Tabloids this morning saying it was fine to Charter a Gulfstream to Extradite a criminal to the USA for the sale of Rhino Horns.
        And yet our 2 officers remain stuck in Africa...
        They left out the bit that the US paid for that flight, not sure if they also organised it

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        • #49
          Originally posted by DeV View Post
          They left out the bit that the US paid for that flight, not sure if they also organised it
          If it was the US Marshals who organised it, then surely it may have even been one of their own aircraft.

          https://www.usmarshals.gov/jpats/
          Last edited by CTU; 25 May 2020, 17:23.
          It was the year of fire...the year of destruction...the year we took back what was ours.
          It was the year of rebirth...the year of great sadness...the year of pain...and the year of joy.
          It was a new age...It was the end of history.
          It was the year everything changed.

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          • #50
            Interesting line up for the NSSI webinar on air mobility:
            https://twitter.com/RACO_DF/status/1264931989100138499

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by CTU View Post
              If it was the US Marshals who organised it, then surely it may have even been one of their own aircraft.

              https://www.usmarshals.gov/jpats/
              Unlikely, they have a few clapped out 737s and a Saab 2000, and interestingly the Justice Prisoner and Alien Transportation System is very like a regular air line, they have flight schedules and even their own terminal (transfer prison) in Oklahoma City, à la Con Air.

              Its unlikely they would divert one plane for one extradition, its probably just easier and more convenient to charter the Gulfstream.

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              • #52
                Just looking at the twitter mentions, the only one I don't follow is Mr Kehoe.
                Buying onto the SAC group would seem to be the most useful option, but nice to see the Hercules get mentioned too.
                German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
                German 2: Private? I am a general!
                German 1: That is the bad news.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Some great points coming out of the webinar so far, based on the twitter feed alone. Head of the SAC operation just begun speaking. Earlier, the NZ military freight operation was seen as an ideal example to follow.
                  Whether anyone with the power to change things will pay attention, is a whole other story.
                  German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
                  German 2: Private? I am a general!
                  German 1: That is the bad news.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post

                    Not a fan personally.
                    History shows that large aircraft have failed in the large dump of water for firefighting, causing wing folding upwards, and in one case fuel leak and explosion. They were designed as troop transports or refuellers where everything happens in slow time. Get a transport plane by all means but not for dumping water.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
                      History shows that large aircraft have failed in the large dump of water for firefighting, causing wing folding upwards, and in one case fuel leak and explosion. They were designed as troop transports or refuellers where everything happens in slow time. Get a transport plane by all means but not for dumping water.
                      Not quiet true.
                      Most large military transporter, C130 included, are design to air drop large loads; a case in point is the M551 Sheridan Light Tanks out of the back of a C-130, normally with LAPES. The sudden movement of CG and loads caused are less than what a water drop would be. If you look into the reports on the failures then what becomes apparent are the underlying causes; old aircraft with fatigue issue, poor maintenance and low level of pilot training.

                      A well maintained modern transport aircraft with a competent crew is in no greater danger dropping water than it would be dropping any other heavy load at low level.
                      Last edited by EUFighter; 26 May 2020, 15:54.

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                      • #56
                        Look, no.
                        It's fine for the Amazon where you have thousands of square miles of inaccessable forest, or the Outback in Australia, but there is very little of the miniscule irish forests that cannot be accessed by foot in under an hour from the nearest roadway. As for deploying elsewhere to fight fires, that is so much not our job, and while there are still Canadair super scoopers flying, we won't be needed anyway. If the world is burning to that extent, water bombing will be the least of your problems.
                        It's like earthquake insurance.
                        Move on to somewhing we actually need it for.
                        German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
                        German 2: Private? I am a general!
                        German 1: That is the bad news.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                          Look, no.
                          It's fine for the Amazon where you have thousands of square miles of inaccessable forest, or the Outback in Australia, but there is very little of the miniscule irish forests that cannot be accessed by foot in under an hour from the nearest roadway. As for deploying elsewhere to fight fires, that is so much not our job, and while there are still Canadair super scoopers flying, we won't be needed anyway. If the world is burning to that extent, water bombing will be the least of your problems.
                          It's like earthquake insurance.
                          Move on to somewhing we actually need it for.
                          I was only responding to the technical feasibility of a fixed wing solution.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Kehoe has it sorted

                            https://twitter.com/DOD_Ireland/stat...992197/photo/1
                            Last edited by sofa; 26 May 2020, 23:25.

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                            • #59
                              Apparently they are now looking a troop rotation not withdrawal

                              https://www.irishtimes.com/news/irel...63191?mode=amp

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by sofa View Post
                                I can't see this, I'm just brought to the default twitter page.

                                Originally posted by DeV View Post
                                Apparently they are now looking a troop rotation not withdrawal

                                https://www.irishtimes.com/news/irel...63191?mode=amp
                                Paywall, can you quote the important bits?
                                German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
                                German 2: Private? I am a general!
                                German 1: That is the bad news.

                                Comment

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