Military transport aircraft

[na grohmiti]

RAF Hercules fleet flight hours as at April 2021:

https://questions-statements.parliament.uk/written-questions/detail/2021-04-12/179551/

note that all except ZH889 are the C4 (C130J-30 (lengthened fuselage)) version. ZH889 being the C5 (C130J shorter fuselage) version.



not sure where they current stand on the Centre Wing Box replacements that they were all supposed to get, some may not have got it yet.

they announced earlier this year that they will retire them all…. Will Kabul situation change that?

They have been working hard recently landing the A400s on beaches all over the UK. A400 seems to be where it's at for the forseeable.
2025 is still set as retirement date for their Hercs. Marshalls of Cambridge expect plenty of interest.

[Sparky42]

The LearJet has now been sent out, most likely to the UAE for “support”, whatever it’s meant to be able to do?

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2021/0824/1242496-ireland-afghanistan/

[na grohmiti]

Afghan crisis forces Ireland to do more with less once again (irishtimes.com)
Paywall, but you get the gist.

[Sparky42]

Afghan crisis forces Ireland to do more with less once again (irishtimes.com)
Paywall, but you get the gist.

If he thinks any of this will change anything in the next budget I want what he’s smoking. Honestly even though we would all agree on the value of an airlift capability just like the navy we first have to be able to utilise what we have, could the AC have found the air crew and ground staff to sustain two extra 295s with its current issues?

[ancientmariner]

Their are /were choices to be made with the IRISH passport holders in Afghanistan. Staying at home instructions leaves assembly more difficult as end date looms. They should have been collected to one location/hotel/hostel and bussed to nearest border OR after discussion with Michael O sent the necessary asset to Kabul, bus the Irish to that location, fuel and fly home. At times like this we seem to be always dependent on others. The Government Jet may indicate planning for failure of the mission and a long walk for the team. The aviation market must be full of planes and we must learn that at times like this we must HAVE or acquire the assets. Opportunity was there while the Taliban was supporting evacuation like that of the young Irish teacher.

[na grohmiti]

Their are /were choices to be made with the IRISH passport holders in Afghanistan. Staying at home instructions leaves assembly more difficult as end date looms. They should have been collected to one location/hotel/hostel and bussed to nearest border OR after discussion with Michael O sent the necessary asset to Kabul, bus the Irish to that location, fuel and fly home. At times like this we seem to be always dependent on others. The Government Jet may indicate planning for failure of the mission and a long walk for the team. The aviation market must be full of planes and we must learn that at times like this we must HAVE or acquire the assets. Opportunity was there while the Taliban was supporting evacuation like that of the young Irish teacher.

In march last year, the Former Taoiseach expressed a desire for our own military air transport asset. He bounced it to DFCoS. This was at a time when numerous aircraft were being parked up long term due to covid restrictions, and many airlines were handing back their leased aircraft. So no shortage of civvy airliners to which a roundel could have been added. It could have spent the last 12 months bringing PPE or vaccines from wherever the civvy aircraft that were hired for the job needed to go. The G4 was never replaced, there is still a need for a long range transport type that could fulfil both Government, military pers and freight transport.
Since then, we have heard the DoD/DF have been offered, and refused 1 extra PC12 in flyaway condition, and recently we are hearing also we turned away 2 ex WFP C295s, in freight configuration.
Its like someone doesn't actually want the air corps to have aircraft or any actual capability.

[Jaque'ammer]

From Kevin O'Ceallaigh on Twitter: https://twitter.com/koceallaigh/stat...32263834116101

AIRLIFT FOR THE AIR CORPS: We need to ask the right question. When I served in the Air Corps, I was often asked to reply to a question like this: YOU’RE THE EXPERTS, SO TELL US WHAT AIRCRAFT THE AIR CORPS NEEDS TO PROVIDE AIRLIFT? This is the wrong question.

The Air Corps answer was always: “Whether a C-130/C-27/C-295/A400/ACJ etc, we can train crews, & thereafter operate and maintain it.” (& they can) But, the other response was: “Tell us what you want it to do?” Here are some sample answers that I’ve heard over the years:

The ARW: Land on short airstrips and/or on unprepared strips, at night; lights out (NVGs). Carry a vehicle and a platoon(-) for rapid deployment by ramp door for independent SOF ops. Para Ops (HALO). Countermeasure equipped. ISTAR capable. No identifying marks for opsec.

MATS Tender Criteria (mid-2000’s); Replace the GIV with an aircraft that can carry 26 pax 6,000nm at jet speeds. VIP seating configuration. Operate without Ground Support Equipment. Must have Ireland MATS livery (white with harp on tail).

Logs Admin: Carry up to 250 troops plus bags for each of the three chalks of a UNIFIL Bn rotation. Also: Carry approx 15 tonnes of cargo including dangerous goods (weapons, ammo, ordnance) to Lebanon/Mali/Liberia/Congo/Bosnia etc depending on what year Logs were asked.

DFHQ: Varying over the years between… The Air Corps will provide support for all DF roles assigned by Govt. That is a decision for GOC Air Corps. We need a civil/military working group. It will be in the upcoming Strategy Statement. Current priority are new ships.

DFA/Irish Aid: Move 20 tonnes of Irish aid to any part of Africa, South America or Far East, directly, at short notice, to an airfield in the middle of an area of natural disaster (tsunami, earthquake etc). No military markings so as to appear neutral while helping NGOs.

An Irish contingent commander overseas (fill in UN mission name here): I want an aircraft that can support my mission with full time tactical airlift of troops and/or cargo throughout the mission area 24/7, with strategic medevac capability and repatriation if required.

EUFOR: All troop contributing nations are expected to deploy their assets into theatre at their own expense, either by organic means, or by leasing the capability, as Ireland did for deploying the ARW as IEF into Chad and the main body via commercial means

To be clear; These examples are not meant to be judgmental. It’s just what happened in my personal experience during my career. The point is that in order to support all the competing stakeholders, the aircraft that the Air Corps purchase would need to be able to:

Take off from a 2,000ft strip, fly 6,000nm, or to the Far East, at M.80, carry 250 troops, 20 tonnes of cargo, SOF vehicles, land on a dirt strip at night with no lights using nvgs, deploy via a ramp door & have both a VIP livery & no markings. Oh, and be inexpensive.

No single role justifies the cost, but combined... So next time new airlift for the Air Corps is discussed, the 1st question should be: WHAT DO WE WANT IT TO DO? because every stakeholder has different airlift needs, yet they never speak to or agree with each other.

There has to be a committee established with ALL possible stakeholders at the table, military and civilian, to advise their individual needs. Then a decision, at a National level, can be made based on the most compelling need, to agree the Tender criteria for a purchase.

Otherwise, The Air Corps will continue its efforts to telepathically guess the various airlift capabilities that the Govt, media or public might expect them to provide, at some point in the future, for them to then attempt to create work-arounds using an existing fleet.

“We can’t do a NEO from Kabul.” “We can’t deploy troops to X.” “We can’t conduct firefighting in Y.” “We can’t fly emergency aid to Z.” Identify priority roles and the airframe picks itself. ‘Top down’ rather than ‘bottom up’ thinking is needed. #NationalAsset

[DeV]

In march last year, the Former Taoiseach expressed a desire for our own military air transport asset. He bounced it to DFCoS. This was at a time when numerous aircraft were being parked up long term due to covid restrictions, and many airlines were handing back their leased aircraft. So no shortage of civvy airliners to which a roundel could have been added. It could have spent the last 12 months bringing PPE or vaccines from wherever the civvy aircraft that were hired for the job needed to go. The G4 was never replaced, there is still a need for a long range transport type that could fulfil both Government, military pers and freight transport.
Since then, we have heard the DoD/DF have been offered, and refused 1 extra PC12 in flyaway condition, and recently we are hearing also we turned away 2 ex WFP C295s, in freight configuration.
Its like someone doesn't actually want the air corps to have aircraft or any actual capability.

Not forgetting there are 2 lower houred Omani C295s up for sale and a fleet of upgraded C130J-30s going to be sold….. if only we had a MOU that includes procurement with the country planning to sell them…

[DeV]

Their are /were choices to be made with the IRISH passport holders in Afghanistan. Staying at home instructions leaves assembly more difficult as end date looms. They should have been collected to one location/hotel/hostel and bussed to nearest border OR after discussion with Michael O sent the necessary asset to Kabul, bus the Irish to that location, fuel and fly home. At times like this we seem to be always dependent on others. The Government Jet may indicate planning for failure of the mission and a long walk for the team. The aviation market must be full of planes and we must learn that at times like this we must HAVE or acquire the assets. Opportunity was there while the Taliban was supporting evacuation like that of the young Irish teacher.

Depends on the situation in the individual area, it was reported yesterday morning that at least 1 individual is not in Kabul.

[CTU]

From Kevin O'Ceallaigh on Twitter: https://twitter.com/koceallaigh/stat...32263834116101

In other words, everyone as a requirement that can't be meet by a single type aircaft.
So in my eyes to meet the above you would need a squadron of lets say 1/2x C40A (VIP / Strategic Transport), 2x C295/C27/C130 (Tactical Transport / Special Ops / Medivac) & 1/2x PC24 (VIP / Medivac). All perfectly reasonable for a country like Ireland to possess, if the Government / Department was intrested in such a thing.

[na grohmiti]

In other words, everyone as a requirement that can't be meet by a single type aircaft.
So in my eyes to meet the above you would need a squadron of lets say 1/2x C40A (VIP / Strategic Transport), 2x C295/C27/C130 (Tactical Transport / Special Ops / Medivac) & 1/2x PC21 (VIP / Medivac). All perfectly reasonable for a country like Ireland to possess, if the Government / Department was intrested in such a thing.

We could learn a lot from NZ in this regard (yet again).
6 Maritime Patrol P3 Orion (to be replaced by 4 Booeing P8s)
2 B757s for all your VIP/troop deployment needs.
5 C130H for everything else.(To be replaced with C130J shortly)
A nice mixed heli fleet of 8x NH90, 9 Seasprites and 5 AW109s.
For training then
10x Texans and 2x Kingair 350s.
That's a lot of transport options covered there. (apart from the texans).

[Jaque'ammer]

Where to start in achieving something like that though?

[Anzac]

We could learn a lot from NZ in this regard (yet again).
6 Maritime Patrol P3 Orion (to be replaced by 4 Booeing P8s)
2 B757s for all your VIP/troop deployment needs.
5 C130H for everything else.(To be replaced with C130J shortly)
A nice mixed heli fleet of 8x NH90, 9 Seasprites and 5 AW109s.
For training then
10x Texans and 2x Kingair 350s.
That's a lot of transport options covered there. (apart from the texans).

Four KA-350's now as two are also used for training P-3/P-8 crew - plus they are looking at a 2nd tier MPA platform of around 3-4 airframes as part of the Enhanced Maritime Awareness Capability starting in 2023 because they did not have the cash to replace the P-3K like for like.

[ancientmariner]

The pervading problem is that Units are not building up inventory to meet known Forces needs. There should be no waiting to be asked rather submissions from appointed Military staffs including SNCO's to meet experienced contingencies, ONUC,UNICYP, MALI, LIBERIA, and ongoing tasks such as reinforcement and withdrawals. Range is a factor and so-all-so using EUFOR backed aircraft such as A-400 types and well tried Casevac rotaries used from Bagram. If fuel can be got in the air from allied support or at the landing destination then the stated range 3298km can be stretched. Some versions may have legs out to 8000km.

[na grohmiti]

My understanding is, they can request what they want, but the Army have the final say, and the last word has been NO.