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No Role for the Air Corps says Minister for Defence in SAR

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  • Originally posted by CTU View Post
    R116 seems to get mentioned a few times in the rationale in retasking SAR to the Air Corps in the same way that D248 was used by some to remove it (not forgetting the Finner S61 experiment also). I don't like that for a number of reasons, but I would like those who have used it, to remember what R116 tasking was that night, and that maybe the IAC should throw its lot into asking for more MPA resources that it could respond to 24/7 top cover requests, then the argument about "Foreign Based" fixed wing surveillance would not be happening.
    Plus 1

    (The S61 experiment was from Sligo)

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    • Very few countries are using military assets in an exclusive SAR role. Our neighbours use Bristow on contract and France use their Securite National, covering the global use of helicopters in both countries. We with them are ocean based countries with a duty of care in provision of a responsive SAR system which must include , surveillance, mapping, briefing, management, processing and top cover where needed. You also need surface intervention for major ship casualties such as ETV's

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      • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
        make that just because of his comments

        Criticism of the head of IRCG is inappropriate here. His role in Somalia is his current job. You may as well criticise the OC of the IRCON in UNIFIL for the condition of the guardroom in Athlone.
        There are many keen to have a go off him even silence him for giving his honest opinion based on his professional experience.
        The truth hurts.
        There is a big difference in the Head of a State Agency doing the job in Somalia and that of a more junior staff member doing it. The Ho ICG should be at home fighting for resources, fighting to get his agency better organised, to ensure it has no more accidents. Where are the pollution control vessels? the emergency tow vessels? the coastal surveillance radars? The ICG has a lot of responsibilities that the Ho should be fighting to ensure his agency has the resources to conducts safely. You get your own ship in order before tendering to that of someone else.

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        • Originally posted by EUFighter View Post

          There is a big difference in the Head of a State Agency doing the job in Somalia and that of a more junior staff member doing it. The Ho ICG should be at home fighting for resources, fighting to get his agency better organised, to ensure it has no more accidents. Where are the pollution control vessels? the emergency tow vessels? the coastal surveillance radars? The ICG has a lot of responsibilities that the Ho should be fighting to ensure his agency has the resources to conducts safely. You get your own ship in order before tendering to that of someone else.
          The Secretaries are in charge in ALL ministries. Those that attempt to lead and list demands may very well find themselves in Sidi Bel Abbes or even Somalia.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by EUFighter View Post

            There is a big difference in the Head of a State Agency doing the job in Somalia and that of a more junior staff member doing it. The Ho ICG should be at home fighting for resources, fighting to get his agency better organised, to ensure it has no more accidents. Where are the pollution control vessels? the emergency tow vessels? the coastal surveillance radars? The ICG has a lot of responsibilities that the Ho should be fighting to ensure his agency has the resources to conducts safely. You get your own ship in order before tendering to that of someone else.
            You seem to be of the impression he could or should abandon his secondment to Somalia? He is not the head of the state agency. He is on a leave of absence from it while working for EUCAP Nestor.
            If so should the Defence Forces abandon UNIFIL or UNDOF for the same reason?
            German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
            German 2: Private? I am a general!
            German 1: That is the bad news.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
              Very few countries are using military assets in an exclusive SAR role. Our neighbours use Bristow on contract and France use their Securite National, covering the global use of helicopters in both countries. We with them are ocean based countries with a duty of care in provision of a responsive SAR system which must include , surveillance, mapping, briefing, management, processing and top cover where needed. You also need surface intervention for major ship casualties such as ETV's
              The vast majority of European countries do not use exclusively private companies to provide SAR. Even Sécurité Civil (Civil Defence) is a government run agency and it only covers inshore rescue, offshore been handled by Marine Nationale. But then Sécurité Civil also is responsible for aerial firefighting and bomb disposal.

              Comment


              • In June 2019 the Department responsible set up an SAR Review to development or strengthen a National SAR Plan (NSP). They consulted widely with Canada, New Zealand, Sweden , Norway etc. and were to come up with a Joint RCC by December 2020. I don't know it's status or additional capabilities or whether it has been added in to International documentation such as ALRS or IAMSAR. SAR is all about assets on call, in the right place at the right time. Overall the paperwork was admired let's hope the implementation and training are equally relevant

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                • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
                  In June 2019 the Department responsible set up an SAR Review to development or strengthen a National SAR Plan (NSP). They consulted widely with Canada, New Zealand, Sweden , Norway etc. and were to come up with a Joint RCC by December 2020. I don't know it's status or additional capabilities or whether it has been added in to International documentation such as ALRS or IAMSAR. SAR is all about assets on call, in the right place at the right time. Overall the paperwork was admired let's hope the implementation and training are equally relevant
                  Governments are great at commissioning reports

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                  • https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/a...ract-828xdx9fx

                    Sinn Fein can smell the votes

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                    • Originally posted by DeV View Post

                      Governments are great at commissioning reports
                      The biggest chore is to cover circumstances especially when you must intervene and when you must withdraw. An example would be when a rescue or elements of it are NOT survivable by the rescuers or like in the Mediterranean even when called twice for assistance 130 people were left swimming because of International policy to return to country of origin.

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                      • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post

                        The biggest chore is to cover circumstances especially when you must intervene and when you must withdraw. An example would be when a rescue or elements of it are NOT survivable by the rescuers or like in the Mediterranean even when called twice for assistance 130 people were left swimming because of International policy to return to country of origin.
                        The biggest chore is to get Government and Civil Service to implement recommendations of any report that they have commissioned

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                        • Originally posted by DeV View Post

                          The biggest chore is to get Government and Civil Service to implement recommendations of any report that they have commissioned
                          Exactly right! Many years ago I was DCO running the MRCC office when it became necessary to take a passenger off a United States Lines Cargo vessel about 250 miles off the South west Coast of Kerry. The RAF did the job with Helo and Nimrod and landed patient in Cork, transferred to Dublin seriously ill but after time survived to go home. A file appeared to look for payment. It was sent to the US who sent it back with scathing remarks about the duty of nations. Not to be thwarted the department sent the file for my attention looking for payment of some eyewatering amount for the patients care while he was in the country. The up shot was a reduction in flexibility and speed in responding to requests for assistance. The MRCC was handed back to the Department not too long afterwards. I got the job of doing the hand over and this incident was lesson no. 1.

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                          • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                            Or the opportunity to denude the Irish Air Corps of its core military function.
                            'History is a vast early warning system'. Norman Cousins

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                            • Originally posted by spider View Post

                              Or the opportunity to denude the Irish Air Corps of its core military function.
                              Same reason they vocally oibject to our involvement with PESCO, and specifically MARSUR.
                              German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
                              German 2: Private? I am a general!
                              German 1: That is the bad news.

                              Comment


                              • the Shinners would have a history of disliking Maritime surveillance.

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