Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

No Role for the Air Corps says Minister for Defence in SAR

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • For all the talk, the AC are showing themselves - yet again - to be absolutely desperate to do anything other than dealing with dirty wet soldiers in fields and having their dirty wet equipment in the AC's nice clean helicopters.

    SAR, HEMS, Bog measuring - anything but any role they could be construed as a military role...
    Last edited by ropebag; 20 November 2020, 12:11.

    Comment


    • That's why they let Army use the Alouettes in the 2000s. They knew they were going to be scrapped anyway...
      German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
      German 2: Private? I am a general!
      German 1: That is the bad news.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by ropebag View Post
        For all the talk, the AC are showing themselves - yet again - to be absolutely desperate to do anything other than dealing with dirty wet soldiers in fields and having their dirty wet equipment in the AC's nice clean helicopters.

        SAR, HEMS, Bog measuring - anything but any role they could be construed as a military role...
        Who said that AC looked for EAS?

        A Minister wanted EAS to stop him losing his Dail seat due to A&E closures!
        Government tasked DoD to provide (at DoD’s cost for a fair period of time, not HSE’s)

        Who says it is AC looking for SAR?
        It appears to be some politicians who (quite rightly) say if that kind of money was given to the AC they could do the job cheaper... while ignoring facts like they don’t have enough people to do current taskings.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by DeV View Post
          Who said that AC looked for EAS?

          A Minister wanted EAS to stop him losing his Dail seat due to A&E closures!
          Government tasked DoD to provide (at DoD’s cost for a fair period of time, not HSE’s)

          Who says it is AC looking for SAR?
          It appears to be some politicians who (quite rightly) say if that kind of money was given to the AC they could do the job cheaper... while ignoring facts like they don’t have enough people to do current taskings.
          The politicians (on twitter at least) are being actively campaigned to by ex Air Corps, and are reporting that they have been approached by officers in the Air Corps to this effect (if true a huge breach of regulations).
          German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
          German 2: Private? I am a general!
          German 1: That is the bad news.

          Comment


          • Who said that AC looked for EAS?

            A Minister wanted EAS to stop him losing his Dail seat due to A&E closures!
            Government tasked DoD to provide (at DoD’s cost for a fair period of time, not HSE’s)

            Who says it is AC looking for SAR?
            It appears to be some politicians who (quite rightly) say if that kind of money was given to the AC they could do the job cheaper... while ignoring facts like they don’t have enough people to do current taskings.

            I could go out and recruit RDF 139 pilots and probably crewmen as well ( enough to run the EAS tasking ) but that would not suit the narrative I fear
            "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

            "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

            Comment


            • Originally posted by ropebag View Post
              For all the talk, the AC are showing themselves - yet again - to be absolutely desperate to do anything other than dealing with dirty wet soldiers in fields and having their dirty wet equipment in the AC's nice clean helicopters.

              SAR, HEMS, Bog measuring - anything but any role they could be construed as a military role...
              Maybe we should have bought a dozen 212's[uh-1's, no wait they were used in Vietnam for air ambulance...
              "We will hold out until our last bullet is spent. Could do with some whiskey"
              Radio transmission, siege of Jadotville DR Congo. September 1961.
              Illegitimi non carborundum

              Comment


              • Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
                Completely crazy, not only should the Air Corp be fully integrated but the Naval Service also. The UK has fitted the Batch 2 Rivers with a large heli deck which means they can refuel SAR helicopters extending their range or time on station searching.
                We've been down that road before and it just won't work when the AC is pulled in different directions by different masters with limited assets, it will always be.. and should always be a non runner until the Naval Service has defined air assets

                The Air Corps shouldn't be considered for that which they have neither suitable numbers or types of machines.

                This is a minister with his head in his arse who has forgotten the lessons of the past.
                Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

                Comment


                • Originally posted by trellheim View Post
                  I could go out and recruit RDF 139 pilots and probably crewmen as well ( enough to run the EAS tasking ) but that would not suit the narrative I fear
                  If the AC wants SAR, the 139 doesn’t suit IRCG’s requirements

                  RDF could cover a bit of leave etc but that would be it as it is a full time rostered job. You’d be talking probably 2 x 24hr duties per week per base (not even FLR could do that) and rostered strict rest

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
                    We've been down that road before and it just won't work when the AC is pulled in different directions by different masters with limited assets, it will always be.. and should always be a non runner until the Naval Service has defined air assets

                    The Air Corps shouldn't be considered for that which they have neither suitable numbers or types of machines.

                    This is a minister with his head in his arse who has forgotten the lessons of the past.
                    In fairness to the Minister he is getting things done problem is it’s after the horse has bolted and not with enough urgency

                    There would be no issues with a dedicated flight/Sqn for naval co-op (or any other tasking) if they were given sufficient aircraft, personnel and resources. The issue is that they aren’t.

                    Comment


                    • RDF could cover a bit of leave etc but that would be it as it is a full time rostered job. You’d be talking probably 2 x 24hr duties per week per base (not even FLR could do that) and rostered strict rest
                      Ah no but if we are shite talking then why not throw the reserve in as well, sure it can go in the box with the rest of the windup toys
                      "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

                      "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by trellheim View Post
                        Ah no but if we are shite talking then why not throw the reserve in as well, sure it can go in the box with the rest of the windup toys
                        2 People on my standard NCO cse work for CHC in the SAR game. 1 A winchman/paramedic, one a technician. Same course had an S76 pilot.
                        German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
                        German 2: Private? I am a general!
                        German 1: That is the bad news.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Brian McGrath View Post
                          Crazy when we have such modern aircraft and new Casas on the way.

                          https://afloat.ie/safety/coastguard/...-for-air-corps
                          Crazy privatising it full stop. public services delivered by the private sector iin ireland does not provide value for money.

                          Comment


                          • When you see some of the squandering of money that has gone on in the DF, by the DF, you wouldn't trust some of them with skipping ropes. CHC, like it or not, has cut the fat out of the SAR project and made it work and they have the resources, skilled workforce, tools, kit and worldwide experience. How could the Air Corps compete with that, when it's struggling to meet normal daily requirements? It's just taken on four new aircraft so THAT learning curve has to be dealt with; it has a manpower crisis, a financial crisis like the rest of the DF and it simply does not have the physical and technical room to take on SAR.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by ibenji View Post
                              Crazy privatising it full stop. public services delivered by the private sector iin ireland does not provide value for money.
                              Crazy asking an organisation to provide a service without giving them the resources

                              Comment


                              • Although I would like to be able to compare us to some other nation it seems that New Zealand always manages to come up and so it is here again. One of the major reasons why neither the AC nor the NS has the level of resources they need is the focus in Ireland on the Army. Both New Zealand and ourselves are roughly the same in terms of population and wealth, plus we are island nations. But if one looks at the division of the forces they are very different:
                                New Zealand Ireland (est) Ireland (act)
                                Army 4539 7520 6878
                                Navy 2050 1094 899
                                Air Force 2516 886 752
                                Total 9105 9500 8529
                                So although the total armed forces are roughly the same how they are proportioned is not and this affects what each service can do. So what does this have to do with the ability of the Air Corps to provide SAR? It is because the number of tasks allocated to the two Air Forces is very similar as neither have fast jets fighters. Admittedly the area that both the New Zealand Navy and Air Force have to patrol is greater but the tasks in their most basic definition are very similar. And not too be overlooked is that their fleet of 8x NH-90's and 5x AW-109's are providing air lift for an army 2/3 of ours!

                                The Air Corps (along with the Naval Service) is chronically under-funded and under-resourced. To take on any further tasking would require a major uplift in resourcing and funding.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X