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Iac Orbat

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  • Iac Orbat

    Hi. I'm normally one of the regulars on the Airforces Monthly boards but it's nice to see some talk on a more modest force. You do seem to spend a fair amount of time though talking about the jets you aren't going to be getting until Ireland starts looking to expand its territories.
    Since you are going to have to base you force around light utility helicopter, medium transport helicopters, special forces insertion heli's, tactical transports, multipurpose trainers and patrol planes what do you think the ORBAT of the IAC should be? Personally I'd suggest types like the Kamov-60 which has limited stealth features, Mil 38s,more CASA-295's, EH101 AEW choppers. You could also start kitting out your PC9s like the this SuperTucano.The Brazilians use them in concert with AEW aircraft to down drug runners aircraft.I believe your PC9s are wired for Sidewinders.
    Last edited by ForkTailedDevil; 8 February 2006, 23:46.
    Si vis pacem para bellum

  • #2
    Sorry if I made any assumptions here about your knowledge of types and phrses. ORBAT is Order of Battle. Basically what you have in your inventory.A Kamov 60 is a Russian made helicopter which strongly resembles a Dauphin, and has the ability to carry 10 soldier plus has attack abilities.Mil 38 is an improvement over the old Mil Hips with higher payload and a great glass cockpit with the latest Russian avionics, plus it is fairly simple to maintain being Russian.The EH101 is in service with the Italian Navy as an AEW type, much like the Royal Navy Sea Kings with the side mounted radomes.
    Last edited by ForkTailedDevil; 17 March 2004, 12:30.
    Si vis pacem para bellum


    • #3
      To begin with, i`d love if we got some casa-295s because i believe we need something bigger than the 235s. I think that either blackhawks or indeed merlins would be on the wishlist of everyone here as would sidewinders or Amramms but all these things come down to budget. The Air corps is in no position to afford these things(someone mentioned a few days ago that theres enough funding at the moment for 2 helicopters).
      Personally i cant see bertie and co giving the Air Corps several hundred million euro to buy these new aircraft and missiles.
      Education isn't everything, for a start it isn't an elephant


      • #4
        You should never think about paying full price for stuff and think about who you could get these things of.The USAF uses your airports frequently on TransAtlantic flights and this has resulted in peace protestors causing trouble. I'd request a couple of dozen old model Sidewinders of them. It clears out space for them to put AMRAAMS into. Integration to the PC9s should be fairly straight forward. Also ask them for half a dozen Hueys. There are hundreds of these lying around in storage or in National Guard inventories. Tell them its for the war on terror or drug interdiction. I'm sure the Americans wouldnt mind ridding themselves of a few of these either. If you look at some recent news the Americans are hoping to buy more Blackhawks for their ANG fleets anyway.Kiowas and OH58s will also be available.

        Plenty of C130s exist around the world.Europe is looking to upgrade to A400s for their transport fleet, so take a Hercules of someones hands to free up some budget for them.Get one, paint it white, slap Aer Lingus on the side and rent it out for cargo transport. When the need arises paint UN on the side.The funds coming in from the business side should self support it until you need to do military transport. C295 would be nice though.

        I believe the EU subsidise the EH101s with the radar so you can buy two, and use them for SAR, special forces work etc because they still have a lot of space inside.

        KA60s would be useful. They are a blackhawk class helicopter and have limited stealth ability. Low IR and radar returns. They are also quite quiet due to rotor design. They would give Europe the only current stealth aircraft if you buy them quickly and would provide a new attack helicopter capability.If not them the British are getting Merlins so there should also be some excess Lynxs.

        Selling of a good bit of your current but elderly fleet should buy at least a couple of these aircraft. Also, cut down on the number of airfield.The airfields in the Cork, Dublin and Galways areas are all you should need and this will save you money or combine with civilian fields.If any of your are thinking about pilot traing problem, look to New Zealand which did away with it fast jets, plenty of good pilots there. Air forces around the world are looking to downsize. Pilots are available, though whether you want to call them mercenaries or not is up to you.
        Last edited by ForkTailedDevil; 8 February 2006, 23:46.
        Si vis pacem para bellum


        • #5
          The airfields in the Cork, Dublin and Galways areas are all you should need and this will save you money or combine with civilian fields


          Please at least do us the courtesy of getting your facts straight before delivering lectures.

          Exactly what level of knowledge are you working on here?


          • #6
            Ok, my apologies. I didn't mean to give lectures.I was just describing methods of gaining the best airforce on limited resources. Also apologies on the bases thing. I was shown a bad map that someone who should remane nameless, but shall receive a slap, had been mapping distribution of various types of airfield on as well as placing a new airbase for Gripens in Cork and one for CASA's in Galway.He hadnt told me he was adding new ones. Ok, Finner, Monaghan, Baldonnell and Waterford are well distributed for "defence", SAR etc.
            My level of knowledge for this.Sorry, its my work and hobby. I shouldn't say for who.
            Si vis pacem para bellum


            • #7
              F-T-D, about the only worthwhile or even remotely workeable suggestion there is the one on acquiring AIM-9s from the US, and even that would be political dynamite.

              Not going to go into the factual inaccuracies either ...

              Welcome btw


              • #8
                So FTD your creating a PC game or what?


                • #9
                  No, not a PC game.Nor any sort of game.Its quite amazing what you can do with a copy of the AMARC stockpile, comparing lists of new and recent airforce purchases and what they were using before.Since you have dealings with the EU's new defense force you need new(ish) kit.If you take a look at what the the ex Warsaw Pact nations are getting in handouts from the Western countries and the new Partnership for Peace treaties you will feel bad.Ireland doesnt need a huge amount of aircraft now but what you have doesnt quite have the capabilities modern militaries need.Lean on some bigger nations for anything they have lying around.You can get away with 12-20 helicopters, and a couple of planes, thats just the new kit that will replace much of what you have. You are heading the EU, spend a day in Brussels and ask everyone if there is anything they don't want and just have clogging up a hanger.I believe Ireland only spends 1% of its GDP on defense.Most Western countries spend 2.5% or so on defense, even ones without a great need for spending much. Ireland forces are professional but under equipped and underfunded. Though the army has some good stuff, and the navy has some cool boats.Actually, sorry, come to think of it, its just the IAC that needs some decent stuff. Airpower is the most important part of the military in todays world.The ability of Ireland to move its peacekeepers around by itself, run smuggling interdiction mission and generally fly the flag gives a country a bit of pride.
                  Si vis pacem para bellum


                  • #10
                    Last edited by Guest; 23 November 2004, 12:51.

                    "When you arise in the morning, think of what a precious privilege it is to be alive - to breathe, to think, to enjoy, to love."

                    Marcus Aurelius Roman Emperor (161 to 180 A.D.)


                    • #11
                      EU's new defense force

                      Its not a defence force, its a Rapid Reaction Force. At this point there are no defensive provisions.

                      As for the 'ask people' angle, yes, I'm sure it would shake some bits and pieces out of the woodwork, but bits and pieces are not sustainable. Taking AMARC for an example, the gear that go there is generally very tired.

                      From UH-1s right up to F-15s, taking this type of stuff into service would mean (for any air arm) a prohibitive expense in getting these aircraft fit for service and then keeping them operational.

                      We've all gone tooling round the AMARC site wondering 'what if', you just have to remember that those aircraft are there for a reason; there are many other countries with much more pressing needs for military equipment, they've left AMARC empty handed, so should we.
                      Last edited by Aidan; 18 March 2004, 14:11.


                      • #12

                        you couldnt have aired your gripes here or are you afraid of being punished by the moderators?
                        Last edited by Steamy Window; 18 March 2004, 12:30.
                        "Gentlemen, you can’t fight in here...this is the War Room!"


                        • #13
                          Obviously not.

                          We're paranoid & lack a sense of humour.
                          "The dolphins were monkeys that didn't like the land, walked back to the water, went back from the sand."


                          • #14
                            What a silly man.


                            • #15
                              I've posted a response on that board.
                              "The dolphins were monkeys that didn't like the land, walked back to the water, went back from the sand."