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  • ec145s for air corps

    read this in another forum,

    From this weeks Flight Intl:

    Minister Smith will announce, in 2 weeks, an order for:
    2 EC135 for training
    4 EC145 for army navy support, medical evacuation, inshore rescue, VIP transport.
    These will replace 4 AS365F Dauphin, 7 SA316 Alouette III, 1 AS342L Gazelle.....

    6 to replace all 12, not good. ec145 can hold up to 9 passengers or 6 combat troops with 2x3 seating.....its no merlin or indeed blackhawk
    Education isn't everything, for a start it isn't an elephant

  • #2
    This doesn't tally at all with the announcement that a tender was to be released shortlyfor LUHs given by the minister at the PC9 arrival.
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    With 50,000 men getting killed a week, who's going to miss a pigeon?

    Guns don't kill people, bullets kill people.

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    • #3
      I know, I`m just relaying what I saw on another forum. The reason I posted it was because people have been saying that the 145 was the most likely choice. Also if the dauphins are going this summer then a replacement will need to be found quickly and since tenders take a long time the minister might have by-passed this
      Education isn't everything, for a start it isn't an elephant

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      • #4
        I hope they dont get that heli!!

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        • #5
          Doesn't sound likely.I'd give it a couple of elections after the last PC9 is delivered before they start tendering for helicopters,
          Si vis pacem para bellum

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          • #6
            I really did think that the BlackHawks was too good to be true. Blackhawks second hand maybe but new no way

            Anyway I think the EC145 fulfulls all of the realistic roles of the Helicopter wing.
            check out the site

            http://www.eurocopter.com/ec145/
            I went into an Italian restaurant and ordered dessert and they gave me tiramisu and a blindfolded horse and I said No, I said mask a pony (mascarpone)

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            • #7
              xxxxx
              Last edited by lordinajamjar; 23 November 2004, 12:03.

              "When you arise in the morning, think of what a precious privilege it is to be alive - to breathe, to think, to enjoy, to love."


              Marcus Aurelius Roman Emperor (161 to 180 A.D.)

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              • #8
                The only way the lengthly tender process can be avoided is through leasing. This has been done in the past,usually with a pretty short run in time, with aircraft such as the S61, Casa 250(white one), Gulfstream 3, HS125-600 and of course the Puma. If they had bought the latter when they were supposed to we wouldnt be in the mess we are now.


                Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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                • #9
                  The only way the lengthly tender process can be avoided is through leasing

                  We've discussed this before, in terms of military equipment the Minister can merely buy off the shelf with no need for a tender if he (or she) feels there is a need for it. There are several examples of this already. So if the minister wants, or is advised, that 135s and 145s are what is required, then the matter can be made that simple. The tender is used generally cos its more transparent and distances the process from the politician involved.

                  This is all still just rumour though, there has been so much gossip over helicopter purchases for the Air Corps over the last 20 years that absolutely nothing can be regarded as a given until its sitting on the ground in Baldonnel with a tricolour on..

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                  • #10
                    xxxxx
                    Last edited by lordinajamjar; 23 November 2004, 12:04.

                    "When you arise in the morning, think of what a precious privilege it is to be alive - to breathe, to think, to enjoy, to love."


                    Marcus Aurelius Roman Emperor (161 to 180 A.D.)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      The air corps is no longer a military arm in all but title, the purchase of this helicopter would be more likely given the de facto civil security nature of the IAC.
                      It aint nice or even acceptable, in fact I'd regard it as a criminally negligent even subversive act but 6 EC-145s make more sense in this context than a militarily useful helicopter.
                      "It is a general popular error to imagine that loudest complainers for the public to be the most anxious for it's welfare" Edmund Burke

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                      • #12
                        This is how it will go; we will be getting the EC145!!!
                        Why? Because of its non military look!!!

                        Consider for a moment, the Blackhawk or Huey.....
                        Both great machines, plenty of troop capacity, capable of SAR duties (if that service was ever to return to the IAC), both proven workhorse through out the world for many forces, particularly the NATO forces and especially the US.

                        BINGO!!!! There’s the problem……they are used by NATO.

                        The argument is how can a country that is “neutral” be seen to be using equipment that is using by a mighty military alliance, which we are not affiliated to?
                        Academic I know, especially considering that we are using American radios and 5.56mm ammo for our weapons, and that a NATO standard, but that may just be because 7.62 is hard to come by or more expensive.

                        But the powers that be have to look at it from the point of view of the ordinary Joe Soap, how would he feel if he saw a Blackhawk flying by?? The majority wouldn’t mind as long as

                        A) it didn’t hit their pocket too hard
                        B) it could do the job it was bought for

                        But the minority who would make noise would claim that this was part of a clandestine plan by the government to prepare the Defence Forces for alignment to a Militarised Europe. However what they fail to ever consider is the Ireland is not an isolationist state and we are members of both the UN and the new European Rapid Reaction Force (ERF) and thus our troops have to operate with troops from aligned Nations and hence cross train with their equipment particularly in relation to airborne capacity, because we currently have no medium/heave lift capability.

                        This was illustrated in East Timor with Australia and New Zealand providing troop transport , and more recently in Liberia with ex-Soviet Block Helio’s (not sure of the make, but I think they were from Slovenia) providing troop transport.

                        Essentially it all boils down yet again to the old chestnut of “Neutrality”!!
                        "Dwight D. Eisenhower: The best morale exists when you never hear the word mentioned. When you hear it it's usually lousy.

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                        • #13
                          LUHs are pretty crappy for proper military use put good enough for paramilitary type operations.Some may get fits like the police chopper. A while back I had a crazy idea for the observation role. I saw that a US company is doing re-builds of US surplus AH1 Cobras for civil use, logging, aerial photography for movies etc and though that it was a good idea.Take a Cobra, rip out the weapons systems and refit the turret with CCTV, LLTV and infra red cameras, NVG compatable cockpit, Nitesun search light on the stub wings, etc but keep the armour and you have a fast, armoured helicopter with paramilitary and military uses.Nuts I know, but it should work pretty well though probably been unacceptable for the government because of the looks.
                          Si vis pacem para bellum

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                          • #14
                            keep the weapons and give it to a new army air support unit.

                            Paint the Blackhawks, silver with illuminous orange tails and nose cones and call them Eagle 60's and they wouldnt know the difference... in fact if you could buy them on the sly, then you could probably call them Dauphins and the majority of the public wouldnt know the difference...
                            "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
                            "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

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                            • #15
                              Two ways of looking at this. The EC145 should be a decent machine, and was chosen by the French to replace their AIIIs, for instance. If they were followed up by some larger helicopters in a reasonable timeframe to provide a real support capability to the Army, then it's not a bad thing.

                              If they are the extent of helicopter purchases for the forseeable future, the A/C is thoroughly shagged for all eternity.
                              .
                              .
                              .
                              With 50,000 men getting killed a week, who's going to miss a pigeon?

                              Guns don't kill people, bullets kill people.

                              Comment

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