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  • Attack & Scout Helicopters

    What’s the point in us buying any jets to perform an air to air or air to ground role, the likelihood is that we'll buy between 5 and 10 aircraft park them outside at baldonnel and anyone who decides they want to attack us will blow them up in the first half hour of the war.

    As for the F5 it wouldn't do our country pride any good or any other sort of good buying them as they are out dated and pointless in this day of 4th generation fighters.

    What the aercorp need to be buying now is helicopter troop transport or even a few Osprey for the peacekeeping missions abroad to help are troops maybe even with a couple of 50cal machine guns on the sides.

    I recon instead of worrying about our air to air capabilities start worrying about ground to air capabilities. And for air to ground what’s the point were on a small island with plenty of places to hide people with hand held anti tank or carrying out guerrilla type warfare.

  • #2
    I watched a programme about new age helicopters with air to air capabilities, I think they were about as expensive as last years fighter aircraft. I think the Ruskies have one but not sure what the US has at this stage.
    Hanno

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    • #3
      That would be the Kamov Ka-50 and 52.The new Mil28 Havoc can do air to air aswell but not as successfully.Fantastic for taking out other helicopters and they might even claim the odd CAS plane if it doesn't watch itself.Apaches and Cobras can carry Sidewinders and Stingers (a prototype Sea Apache could even carry AMRAAMs)
      for self defense but aren't an A2A specialist like the Kamov.

      (actually, have to edit this, cos I don't think the Sea Apache made it past theoretical stage.It was meant to protect surface fleet that didn't have a carrier and as a replacement for the Marines Cobras.It would've lacked the cannon and had extra fuel and differnet aviaonics with a F/A 18 type cockpit)
      Last edited by ForkTailedDevil; 19 May 2004, 09:28.
      Si vis pacem para bellum

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      • #4
        http://www.sistemasdearmas.hpg.ig.co...bseaapache.jpg

        and

        http://www.sistemasdearmas.hpg.ig.co...avalapache.jpg

        just two images of what the proposed but never fully developed sea apache may have looked like.

        personally, i think get the blackhawks in, and at least trainer jets and we'll be doing well, i dont think our government will invest the kind of money required for supporting a wing of fighter jets, theyd rather blow it on projects that are over budget, behind schedule and usually eventually never used, or sold off for half the price to a private venture.
        "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
        "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

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        • #5
          Longbow Apache of the AAC is currently undergoing deck landing qualification on HMS Ocean.


          Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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          • #6
            Yeah, apart from the re-engining one of the biggest changes in the AAC Apaches was that certain changes were made to allow them to operate from the ships, nothing major but a handy ability nonetheless since we didn't have a dedicated naval attack helicopter to support beachheads like the Anericans do with the Cobra.Its part of the whole Joint Helicoper Force thing.Army Lynxes in Naval squadrons were performing anit-tank missions in Iraq.Complicated way to run things but at least they have naval helicopters.
            Si vis pacem para bellum

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            • #7
              The US found that attack copters didn't do so well in Iraq as they had heaps of AAA and SAMS. The Super Kiowa was not much use at all..
              If a ship borne helicopter could carry anti ship type missiles it would be great, especially if it is an over the horizon fire and forget type.
              Hanno

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              • #8
                Off topic now, but there is no such helicopter as a Super Kiowa in American service.The ultimate developemnt of the Kiowa is the Warrior which is still just a scout helicopter and neither work off ships.I assume you mean the Super Cobra which actually did fairly well due to fire whilst moving tactics as opposed to stop and shoot tactics in the case of the Apaches, that were damaged and shot down in significant numbers.The use of helicopters to project some degree of over the horizon firepower is nothing new and something navies use helicopter such as the Lynx, Sea Sprite, Seahawk etc for
                Si vis pacem para bellum

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                • #9
                  The aircraft I am talking about is the updated version of the Kiowa, I thought it was called a 'Super' Kiowa. The Taiwanese use them as a gunship as well. I know the Kiowa and have seen programmes on this aircraft, it has the 'E.T.' Antennae and can carry a small amount of weapons. The Australian Army is not getting new scout type aircraft but is going for the European 'TIGER' as both scout and attack aircraft.
                  Hanno

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                  • #10
                    I think you're both right, the heli JPH is talking about is the Kiowa Warrior, with the mast sight capable of guiding Hellifires. Its still basically a civilian helicopter updated to carry a military role. It was to be replaced by the Comanche, but will probably be replaced (at least partially) by a mix of UAVs and OH-6s.

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                    • #11
                      Yeah, 18 Tigers for the Austrlian Army if my memory serves.The Tiger comes in an anti tanks version for the French and a firesupport version for the Germans.Not entirely sure what the difference is in the weapons fit except that the German version lacks the turreted gun.Might be time to split this thread for a discussion on attack and observation helicopters.
                      Si vis pacem para bellum

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                      • #12
                        Wow, that was fast, thank you mods.Well ppl, should any new troop transport choppers, if purchased, gain backup in the form of armed escort or have scouts available tolook for secured routes?

                        I think I'll edit this an say no, at least in relation to a proper attack chopper like an Apache. The IAC either could't afford them (Dutch just placed some of their new ones in storage due to budget cuts), doesn't have the capability to maintain them or couldn't lay their hands on enuff good pilots to fly them.Other attack choopers thatare converted civilian stuff and wouldn't last long in the face of anything larger than an assault rifle.
                        Last edited by ForkTailedDevil; 19 May 2004, 16:47.
                        Si vis pacem para bellum

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                        • #13
                          This post was accually ment for the jet fighter thread and was switched.

                          I wouldn't have called it attack & scout helicopters because I don't think we need them either, maybe a dozen or so troop transports and a few medievac helicopters.

                          I think one of the best things about Irish peacekeepers is that they don't just fly around, blowing the shit out of the people their suppose to be keeping safe and out of conflict, from a couple of thousand feet in their apache helicopters.

                          THe only good any of this equipment would do for the defence forces would be making air aerforce look pritty at air-shows.

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