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  • #31
    enviromentally friendly pink boiler suits beating everyone with feather dusters?
    Which unit does that make him from?

    So hardly anyone heard that the Luxemburgers were getting an A400M? Their military stands at about 600 if memory serves.At a tight squeeze that should move everyone in a couple of lifts.
    I still think all those second hand refurbished Hercs that are coming on the market now are a better idea.The RAF amongst others are trading in C130H as part exchange for the J models and Lockheed etc are doing upgrades.I think you can get ex-American ones for $6million a plane.
    Si vis pacem para bellum

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    • #32
      lol, i asked for that.

      No i didnt know about the A400's i DO think we shouldve gotten in on the ground, we couldve provided support for the project and maybe built part of it, gotten some return from investment? I think luxembourg are involved in building part of the aircraft too?


      The money alone wasted on e-voting machines (€40m) wouldve bought
      some of the following
      Source: http://www.aeronautics.ru/nws002/mil...aft_prices.htm

      Aircraft:Year:Price:Euro:
      HerculesC-130H1993$35.9m€30m each
      CH-53E1994$28.2m€24m each
      L-159ALCA2000$12m€10.2m each
      UH-60BlackHawk1997$8.26€6.8m each

      and thats just a sample....

      the A400M costs €92m each i think.
      morpheus
      Space Lord of Terra
      Last edited by morpheus; 21 May 2004, 13:59.
      "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
      "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

      Comment


      • #33
        This is probably a dumb question but does anyone know what aircraft the aircorp are acctually looking for, we have these wish list's but what is the aircorp's wishlist and is there any chance of them implementing it??

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        • #34
          FTD, the Luxembourger A400 will be operated by the Belgian AF.

          The C-130 is an old design; the newer versions like the 130J are having serious problems, comes with stretching a design. The older ones are very tired, the former USAF ones would require a very serious upgrade before they'd be suitable for service, and even then theres a limited life span. Leaving aside the fact that they'd be obsolete in a few years (they aready are to be fair), the costs of keeping them airborne would be prohibitive. Also, while they'd be fine for carrying AMLs or L118/trucks, they'd be very limiting on future airlift requirements, such as a turreted AFV. Not even sure a standard PIII will fit on a H or K model 130, for example.

          The reasoning behind my suggestion of the eventual purchase of the A400 was that it is, in effect, going to become the standard airlift aircraft for the RRF, along with some smaller (C-295, G222, C27) aircraft and some larger (RAF C-17s, A-330, An-124). Its expensive because its the best, or will be whenever it comes on the market.

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          • #35
            Anyone think it would be an idea to purchase the aircraft (2 A400m, 2 C295, etc) to form a small aerial transport wing and then fly commercial cargo when the aircraft are not required for military purposes, thus becoming a source of income for the DF and in effect partially paying for themselves?
            "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
            "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

            Comment


            • #36
              92 Million Euro!!!!!!!! Isn't that a bit extravagant considering we could buy three C-130's for that amount
              There is no problem that cannot be fixed with high explosive.

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              • #37
                'Real' aircraft are expensive - the C-17 comes in at over 200mill a pop for example. The C-130, in whatever variant, is older, has shorter legs, less payload, is more difficult to keep flying and costs more to run.

                Purchasing is just one way to do it of course. An alternative, and the one which will undoubtedly be continued, is to just use commercial carriers and AN-124s. Just keep praying that no one else has the on hire when they're needed.

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                • #38
                  Morpheus, was that a "new" price for the C-130H?

                  Austria are reported to have purchased all 3 C-130Ks, including training, refurbishment and structural strengthning for €40 million (life expectancy >20years).

                  IAS

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                  • #39
                    The problem with renting off a company when you need it is either that they don't have a plane free or when you make this phone call

                    "hi we need to rent one of your planes and civilian pilots to fly it into a warzone despite it not being fitted with any self defense systems, how much is that going to be? bzz............Hello....hello?"

                    ForkTailedDevil
                    Vague
                    Last edited by ForkTailedDevil; 21 May 2004, 18:08.
                    Si vis pacem para bellum

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                    • #40
                      That and the fact that, in the event of a major crisis, someone else will most likely have first diibbs on the aircraft.

                      IAS, the price for the Austrian 130 deal, with work completed by Marshall in Cambridge, was 38 million euro. The aircraft were effectively free, with the Austrians just paying for the upgrade.

                      The new cost of a 130J is anywhere between 60 and 100 million USD (depending on who's buying and the model -130J-30 is costlier).
                      Aidan
                      Closed Account
                      Last edited by Aidan; 21 May 2004, 18:17.

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                      • #41
                        Thanks Aidan!

                        I know what you were saying earlier about the merits/demerits of the earlier C-130 aircraft, however with that sort of deal (600k per aircraft per year of service) surely they would be worth it and would allow us to fulfill most/all of our current/potential needs. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the C-130K could carry our PIIIs, can definitely carry the new Fords of the ARW and potential vehicles like the MP44/Bushmaster.

                        IAS

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                        • #42
                          Maybe they could carry all that gear,but to where? Is the Herc Range not a bit limited? Most have an In Flight refuelling probe if they intend clocking up the miles.
                          Perhaps if we are going down that route at all we would be better off with a Longer range transport?
                          Fail to prepare....prepare to FAIL!

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                          • #43
                            If you are going peace keeping no-one is going to be denying you the use of airports to refuel.A Herc can do over 2000miles with a full load so it isn't that limited in range.
                            Si vis pacem para bellum

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                            • #44
                              The Eithne had no shortcomings when it came to operating helos...every expense was made at making her suitable for the role. Had the intended machine been used the ...sea kynx ..there would have been no problem. the eithne was modified towards the final stages of her construction to accept the sa365f...as the mast head was 1.5 metres higher that the sealynx....and at the time the eithne had more advanced landing systems available than all of the regional airports put together. It was not the navies fault that the project was not a success.

                              When the aircorps were based at waterford there was no requirement for an armed guard . I also thought this would be the case but not so. Since it carried no military ordnance this was not required and the aercorps were quite happy to operate without a military presence and on hindsight this would have been totally unfeasible.
                              Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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