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  • ForkTailedDevil
    replied
    I didn't say they would be used for naval co-operation.I only mean that the USCG a good record of helicopter use including Blackhawks.OK, I admit they use theirs mostly in littoral areas but they are experienced enough to recognise that the AB139 is a capable helicopter.If it can fly a medium range rescue mission over the Atlantic or Pacific oceans it should be quite capable of depositing eight grunts or more with plenty of kit overland.

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  • Goldie fish
    replied
    Where did you get that from? There is no mention of any naval co op function with these aircraft. They(The USCG) also got the dauphin,remember?

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  • ForkTailedDevil
    replied
    The IAC following the lead of the USCG current and future aircraft aquisition plans would not be the worst of ideas.They have adopted and adapted a range of aircraft to their needs and have performed thier roles at home, and abroad, admirably.Using A109s for smuggler interdiction, experience of using medium lift and utility helicopters in adverse conditions and from ship decks.If they think that the AB139 works, I'd trust them.

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  • Goldie fish
    replied
    I hope thats exactly what they are looking for barry. Anything less would be another waste of money.

    MOD: Can we give somebody bonus points for talking sense?

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  • barry sheehan
    Guest replied
    speaking from a foot sloggers point of view,i believe that a few thing's should be taken into consideration when deciding on which medium utility helis to pick.
    1/the ability to carry not only a section of troops c/w front line ammo and bergans,but enough fuel capacity to get in and out with no reduction in range.
    2/easy access for emplaning/deplaning ie can you get in and out unhindered whilst wearing cefo and weapon(not easily done in a dauphin,trust me)
    3/ability to carry more than one stretcherd casualty plus medics if the s~~~t hits the fan!
    4/nve flight capable,so we can insert at night.
    5/the ability to provide covering fire from the air and while landed,
    if its a hot extraction

    and last but not least,not be painted a totally untactical white and red!

    what do you guys think would fit this bill?like i said i am coming at this from the grunts point of view.

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  • Aidan
    replied
    rocket pods/HMG pods/cannon pods?

    Yup, most likely using the same pods and weapons as the PC-9.

    Wings, not trying to go off topic, but do you have anything more substantial on the airlift strategic study?

    Only problem with the A-139 is that it hasn't been adopted by any military air arm yet either, and while its advertised as being capable of carrying and using weapons, theres no certainty that this integration work has been done already. Still, at least its still in with a shout. The fact that the USCG is going to adopt it means that (along with the CN-235) there should be a ready supply of upgrade packages in 10-12 years time also.

    Range requirement figures would be very handy though ...
    Last edited by Aidan; 7 June 2004, 21:53.

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  • SPOOKY
    Guest replied
    It depends.

    If its too lift a section in an emergency for just a short hop, then yes they could all squeeze in (assume 10 x 80kg troops+120kg personal equipment = 2000kg/ 2 tonnes, or is it Tons, - damm that ridiculous Imperial measurment system!), if they were all on friendly terms.


    However it it was for say an ARW CT "fastrope" assault onto one of the GOPLATs offshore then no, I'd say it would be an exceptionally tight thing safety wise, too tight in fact.............

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  • ias
    replied
    Will EC145 actually take 8 fully equipped troops, according to the Eurocopter website the 145 seems less capable than the Panther/Dauphin?

    IAS

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  • Goldie fish
    replied
    Why does it need a winch?
    I dont think the ability to deploy abroad is a priority,however the ability to train Irish troops to deploy from Helis while abroad is.
    Remember with 4 or 6 military utility helis,the potential to deploy anywhere outside the country is difficult at best,given downtime for servicing etc.

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  • ForkTailedDevil
    replied
    Never mind which helicopter it is, is the government going to allow its shiny new expensive choppers to be deployed abroad? If not it really doesn't matter if it comes fitted to a civvie or military standard.All it'll need is a winch, all weather capability and a cargo hook.Extra redundancy systems, armour,pintles for door guns, anti missle systems etc aren't really needed if its not going abroad.

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  • Aidan
    replied
    I'd expect an announcement in December or before, mainly because, while a tender has been issued, there has been no mention from official sources of the amount of money involved. That means that any decision on funding is probably pending and relates to the actual equipment involved, like in the PC-9 contract, rather than a situation where a pool of cash is set aside and the contract tailored around that. The budget is in December, therefore it would make sense that, in order for DODs allocation to be sorted, there would have to be a decision made by that point.

    Wings' assessment of the contract sounds reasonable, however I'd be very slow to rule any airframe out, if nothing else other than for the reasons Y-J alluded to. Experience has shown that anything can happen with these tenders; lets just hope that the appropriate lessons were learned from the S-92 debacle.

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  • Goldie fish
    replied
    You mean the S92 Medium lift heli that we already selected and then cancelled? The yanks added a H in line with all their military helis.
    S=civilian H=Military
    Have you read any of the thread?

    So what real timescale are we talking about here?
    How long before deliveries are commenced?
    If all tenders are to be submitted by 23-Jul-2004,how long before we start seeing all shapes and sizes being evaluated?
    How long before a shortlist of competitors are drawn up?
    How long before the 6 or 8 helis could be considered fully operational?
    Removing the prototype option,as with the Mowag Piranhas could shorten lead in time greatly,as a skill base would already exist to train the future instructor pilots. The Pilatus order came on stream pretty quickly,as i assume the powers that be already had a pretty good idea of what they wanted. Even in this community,apart from the jet brigade,everyone was pretty confident that we would be looking at Pilatus,Texan or Tucano,long before the details were announced Indeed even as far back as 2000 these types were being discussed.
    Here again how often have we heard discussion about A109s,EC145s,and blackhawks?
    The writing is on the wall perhaps? The question is not what but WHEN?

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  • coffee
    replied
    would the h-92 superhawk be an option

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  • Wings Ireland
    replied
    Doubtful Goldie,

    A serious problem will arise in December when the last Dauphin goes, regarding IFR flying capability and more importantly, pilot retention.
    Also, 41 yr old heli falling out of the sky=bad publicity. The government are really backed up against the wall on this one, another medium lift fiasco would really damage the Air Corps and have serious implications for its future. There is no room for a cock up on this. This is vital, hence the timeframe specified.

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  • Goldie fish
    replied
    Thankfully we won't have long to wait,as the current Govt will be only delighted to add this to their selection of feathers..if its successful....

    What chance they foul this one up too?

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