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Helicopter Tender UH

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    thebig C
    Banned User

  • thebig C
    replied
    Originally posted by ZULU View Post
    ..
    I saw another version of that report where the issue was not the UH-72A couldn't carry two stretchers, but it didn't allow for the attendant(s) to provide care during the flight to two critically injured/ill patients. Apparently this requirement was not specified by the US Army.

    Leave a comment:

  • thebig C
    Banned User

  • thebig C
    replied
    Funny thing how on those rare occasions when a US military contract goes to a non-US firm, there always seem to be problems...

    The EC-145 can carry two stretchers and an attendant. Why was the air-conditioning unit changed? Is it an American unit that's causing the problem?

    Never underestimate the power and influence of the US military contractors' lobby.

    Leave a comment:

  • Goldie fish
    Tim Horgan

  • Goldie fish
    replied
    Good thing we didn't pick that one then, though it was in the running.

    Leave a comment:

  • ZULU
    Teuton Foot Soldier

  • ZULU
    replied
    Might be of interest to people

    ..
    LUH Takes More Hits

    http://www.defensetech.org/

    Another excellent dispatch from DT friend, Bob Cox, who's a top contributor to the Fort Worth Star-Telegram's new Sky Talk blog and a veteran aerospace reporter for them...


    Pentagon weapons testers are not overly impressed with the Army's new light utility helicopter, the UH-72A Lakota, which is very similar to the Eurocopter EC-145.

    In a recently issued report, the Director of Operational Test and Evaluation said that while the new helicopters can probably serve fine as the equivalent of a small pickup truck they're not well suited to tougher tasks, such as carrying two critically injured patients - one of the Army's requirements.

    The UH-72A is intended primarily for use by the National Guard and stateside Army units as a utility aircraft, meaning carrying four or five people from point A to Point B. It's purpose is to allow the Army to keep its larger, more powerful Blackhawks for use by combat units. The report does indicate the Lakota is an improvement over the aging UH-1H Hueys and OH-58A/C Kiowa models the guard now has.

    But the helicopter failed to meet key mission requirements specified by the Army, including having enough room to carry two critically ill patients with an attending medic. It also cannot lift the required weights, internally or externally, at high altitudes and hot weather. And the cabin air conditioning, which is different than that of the commercial EC-145, cannot keep temperatures low enough. The aircraft manual specifies a condition where the avionics may shut down after just 30-minutes if operated at too high a temperature.

    Produced by Eurocopter/EADS, the UH-72A was selected by the Army a year ago after a competition involving four aircraft that also included entries from MD Helicopters, Bell Helicopter and AgustaWestland. American Eurocopter, the U.S. arm of the French-German consortium, is gearing up to build more than 300 of the new aircraft at a plant in Mississippi.

    Leave a comment:

  • Goldie fish
    Tim Horgan

  • Goldie fish
    replied
    As Billy Joel once said about the Viet Cong, "they heard the hum of the motors,they counted the rotors,and waited for us to arrive....and we would all go down together..."

    Leave a comment:

  • FMolloy
    King Monkey

  • FMolloy
    replied
    Originally posted by FSG
    they should buy some secound hand hueys and reinforce the shell with a differant more bullet proof material cause thats a sexy chopper
    Luckily 'sexiness' was not part of the competition criteria

    Leave a comment:

  • B Inman
    Sergeant Major

  • B Inman
    replied
    Originally posted by FSG
    they should buy some secound hand hueys and reinforce the shell with a differant more bullet proof material cause thats a sexy chopper





    Have you ever heard the rotor noise from a huey.. Italair used a variant of the Huey in Lebanon and you could hear them about 5 minutes before they arrived.


    Adding more armour increases weight and reduces performance.

    Leave a comment:

  • Guest
    Guest

  • FSG
    Guest replied
    they should buy some secound hand hueys and reinforce the shell with a differant more bullet proof material cause thats a sexy chopper

    Leave a comment:

  • Guest
    Guest

  • barry sheehan
    Guest replied
    goldie,first off thanks for emailing me the tender document.very interesting and if we get half the stuff thety are looking for then we will finally have some decent capabilities(limited i know).
    second,before we deployed to kosovo this april we trained on helidrills with the a111 in the glen.fyi.:-patriot:

    Leave a comment:

  • Goldie fish
    Tim Horgan

  • Goldie fish
    replied
    This months cosantoir has a further Article on the use of helis in Liberia,the article really pushing the need for proper Training on all sides with proper troop carrying helis,in the same way as it would be impossible to go overseas using APCs if you have never used one in training..

    Leave a comment:


  • DeV
    replied
    There's another role!

    Leave a comment:

  • Guest
    Guest

  • mutter nutter (again)
    Guest replied
    Hopefully something we will see the Air corp doing here soon, Halo out of a blackhawk
    Attached Files

    Leave a comment:

  • FMolloy
    King Monkey

  • FMolloy
    replied
    Here's the 'shoulds' for the UH:

    1. The engines should be of modular design and should have full authority digital control (FADEC) with training modes.

    2. The helicopter’s fuel system should have:
    a. Pressure and gravity re-fuelling capability.
    b. Fuel Cells with crashworthy properties. Tenderers should state the crashworthiness standard.
    c. Fuel flow meter, or equivalent provisions.
    d. Fuel Jettison capability.
    e. In flight inter tank fuel transfer.

    3. Defect and flaw tolerance in the rotor should be in accordance with FAR/JAR requirements. The rotor system should have a demonstrated ballistic tolerance.

    4. There should be an ability to generate hydraulic power independently on the ground or if not, it must have capability of accepting a standard hydraulic ground rig.

    5. The cockpit should be ergonomic and provide the pilot with a high degree of external visibility. There should be adequate secure stowage for flight documents and chart, including an illuminated, NVE compatible, IFR approach chart holder.

    6. The cockpit displays should be based on the use of modern flat screen units, with adequate redundancy and flexibility to transfer display page formats from one display unit to any other.

    7. The helicopter should be equipped with emergency egress lighting.

    8. The tenderer should provide a mounting for a General Purpose Machine Gun of 7.62mm calibre on both sides of the fuselage. The mounting should be a removable part. Restrictions imposed on the operation of the sliding doors when the weapon is mounted and deployed, should be stated.

    9. The helicopter should be equipped with weather radar.

    10. The helicopter should be equipped with a wire strike protection system.

    11. Tenderers should provide options on the capability of the helicopters to provide limited fire support, which should cover a broad spectrum of basic weapons.

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  • FMolloy
    King Monkey

  • FMolloy
    replied
    Here's the 'musts' for the UH:

    1. The utility helicopter must be designed, manufactured and certified in accordance with JAR/FAR 27 or 29 or alternatively in accordance with a Military Standard which is acceptable to the Irish Air Corps Military Airworthiness Authority and the Department of Defence. The helicopter must be certified for IFR flight, preferably for both single and dual pilot.

    2. Effective fire detection and extinguishing systems must be provided for each engine bay and should be provided in the transmission areas.

    3. The transmission must have the highest possible integrity against wear and tear, and failures. The transmission system must have a run dry capability, for which details must be provided. All relevant areas must be provided with chip detectors.

    4. The rotor system must be designed to provide the maximum possible resistance to fatigue, degradation, and wear and tear.

    5. The helicopter must have redundancy within the electrical system. The electrical system must have the ability to survive ‘first’ failures. Standard ground power unit connectors must be fitted.

    6. The cockpit must provide instrumentation for dual pilot IFR and should have the capability for single pilot IFR operations.

    7. The helicopter must provide a pilot training capability inclusive of dual controls and dual instrumentation. Any additional maintenance requirements generated by this role must be clearly highlighted.

    8. The communications suite must include the following:-

    (1) Military VHF/FM. 30-75MHz VHF/FM. The standard military radio communications system in service with the Irish Defence Forces is ITT AN/ARC 201D SINCGARS (export version). The system must allow pilot, co-pilot or crewman to communicate securely with other elements of the Irish Defence Forces.

    (2) Navigation Receivers. Dual 108 to 118 MHz NAV/VHF AM receivers.

    (3) VHF AM Aeroband. Dual 118 to 137 MHz aeroband VHF/AM (8.33KHz channel spacing).

    (4) Marine VHF FM 156 to 174 MHz marine VHF/FM (including duplex channels).

    9. The helicopter must have a certified, fully duplicated 3-axis autopilot system.

    10. The internal and external lighting must be NVE compatible.

    11. The helicopter must be fitted with port and starboard cabin sliding doors capable of being locked in the open position in flight.

    12 The helicopter must have the capability to carry eight (8) troops, in addition to two crew. In this context troops will be considered to be in light battle order, with a weight of 115 kgs per person. The two cockpit seats must be crashworthy while the troop seats should be crash resistant. Full details of the specification to which these seats are built must be provided.

    13. Options for a VIP configuration must be provided. Tenderers should supply technical details and costs of any VIP equipment fits. Tenderers should also supply details of any in-cabin provisions for this fit.

    14. The helicopter must be fitted with an Emergency Locator Transmitter, capable of transmitting on the distress frequencies prescribed in JAR-OPS 3.820.

    15. The helicopter must be capable of being fitted with an external load lifting system and should be capable of lifting a minimum external load of 1500 kgs.

    16. The helicopter must have the following capabilities in ISA conditions:-

    Range Performance, Military Utility.:The helicopter must be capable of operating with a minimum payload of eight equipped troops (nominal weight 115kg each) and two crew (nominal weight 90kg each) to a destination 120 nm range, non-stop. Fuel must include:
    1) Trip fuel to include start-up, taxi, take-off, transit, approach and landing plus
    2) 10% of planned trip fuel plus
    3) 20 minutes reserve.

    Calculations will include the Helicopter weight inclusive of all fixed parts for optional equipment, but with no optional equipment fitted.

    Range Performance, Air Ambulance: The helicopter must be capable of operating in the Air Ambulance role. It must be capable of carrying three crew, two medical attendants, one patient (nominal weight 90 kg each) to a destination 150 nm range, non-stop. The helicopter Empty Equipped Weight must include proposed Air Ambulance Equipment and fixed parts for the other optional equipment. Fuel must include:

    1) Trip fuel to include start-up, taxi, take-off, transit, approach and landing plus
    2) 10% of planned trip fuel plus.
    3) Holding fuel at destination, 30 mins@1,500ft(ISA) plus
    4) Diversion fuel: sufficient to fly from MDA/DH to an alternate aerodrome 75nm distant.

    The helicopter must have Category A class 1 performance on departure for this mission.

    Range Performance, Neonatal Transfer: The helicopter must be capable of operating in the Neonatal Transfer role. It must be capable of carrying three crew, two medical attendants, (nominal weight 90kgs each) and Neonatal Transfer equipment (nominal weight 240Kgs of current equipment in use; see Annex B3 – Specialised Air Ambulance Installation – page 33) to a destination 150 nm range, non-stop. Fuel must include:

    1) Trip fuel to include start-up, taxi, take-off, transit, approach and landing plus
    2) 10% of planned trip fuel plus
    3) Holding fuel at destination, 30mins@1,500ft(ISA) plus
    4) Diversion fuel: sufficient to fly from MDA/DH to alternate aerodrome 75nm distant.

    Range Performance, VIP Transport: The helicopter must be capable of operating in the VIP Transport role. It will be required to carry three crew and 5 VIPs (nominal weight 90kgs each) in the proposed VIP helicopter fit, to a destination 150 nm range, non-stop. The helicopter Empty Equipped Weight should include proposed VIP seating options and fixed parts for the other optional equipment. Fuel must include:

    1) Trip fuel to include start-up, taxi, take-off, transit, approach and landing plus
    2) 10% of planned trip fuel plus
    3) Holding fuel at destination, 30mins@1,500ft(ISA) plus
    4) Diversion fuel: sufficient to fly from MDA/DH to alternate aerodrome 75nm distant.

    17. A specialised air ambulance installation, which is light and modular, with appropriate life support equipment allowing for a single patient or incubator transfer, must be supplied. The helicopter doors must facilitate the loading of this installation. Tenderers must supply technical details and costs of any/all approved medical equipment/air ambulance fits. Tenderers must also supply details of any in-cabin provisions e.g. electrical connections, medical oxygen plumbing which support the air ambulance configuration. The total additional weight of the air ambulance fit including fixed provisions must be specified.

    Tenderers must in addition provide options for Neo Natal Incubator equipment that must be compatible with the proposed Air Ambulance kit. Weights and costs must be stated.

    18. The helicopter must be capable of being fitted with an emergency floatation system. Such floatation system must be part of the tendered helicopter package. Weights of fixed provisions required for this system must be provided in the tender response.

    19. The helicopter must be capable of being fitted with a rescue hoist system. Such rescue hoist system must be part of the tendered helicopter package. Weights of fixed provisions required for this system must be provided in the tender response. Where options exist for more than one type of hoist these should be provided.

    20. The helicopter must be capable of being fitted with an abseiling and fast roping system. The system should be capable of simultaneously deploying 2-4 troops from both sides of the helicopter. Such systems must be part of the tendered helicopter package. Weights of fixed provisions required for this system must be provided in the tender response.

    21. The helicopter must also be capable of being fitted with skis.

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  • Guest
    Guest

  • mutter nutter (again)
    Guest replied
    I just saw a tv prog on the blackhawk which made me sure the tender was written with it in mind, with the 2 crew chief's and weapon mount's you can just about fit 8 men and bergan's in the cabin:D

    Leave a comment:

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