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  • ForkTailedDevil
    replied
    AaaaaaaaaaaaaaRRRRRgggggggHHHHH

    Would the few of you that still have this idea of LIFTs being valid air defence aircraft please get it out of you head. They are mostly slow, poor range, are not capable of operating autonomously of ground control, can only deploy alimited range of weapons and in many cases nearly as expensive as some proper warplanes (especially the Hawk).They provide the illusion of an effective air defence force with their good looks and lack of propellors but in Ireland even the illusion of the IAC being able to defend Irish airspace is not required since you are surrounded by friendly nations.

    I looked into the other fighter threads and saw that the vast majority of other board memebers are aware of the problem and would agree with those conclusions

    I just checked my previous posts in this thread and as far as I can tell, I explained the capabilities of the Tornado only after others metioned their potential aquisition. I also inserted a paragraph saying that the potential purchase of these jets is all just pie in the sky and that I only metion it as it is one of the more cost effective solutionsIF the IAC required an AD capability in the future.


    I apologise Rooster for only answering your previous mention of Hawks with "NO no no no" and not with a full explanation.I'm not smoking anything and on any of the other posts on fighters that are on the board I have provided information on the capabilities of certain fighters and pointed out that jets are a non existant or VERY low priority purchase for Ireland so would you PLEASE get of my back, read the whole post and take note of what I have said before you lay into me acting like I don't know the IAC doesn't get the funding it should or has other more urgent prioities.

    Leave a comment:


  • FMolloy
    replied
    No one's going to jump down your throat for that

    Leave a comment:


  • Rooster
    replied
    quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    hawk would solve the Air defence problem.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    No no no no no.


    Why why why why why?

    Look, FTD, you can carry on smoking whatever it is you smoke, and talk about MIGs F14's eurofighters, JSF, tornadoes or whatever. But thats just dreaming, look at the roles that an irish air corps plane would be used for, then look at the budget that could be made available, you'll find that the squadrons that can fill these roles with the available budget will be quite modest. Before anyone jumps down my throat I'm not putting Ireland down, I'm just being realistic!

    Leave a comment:


  • yooklid
    replied
    Originally posted by coffee
    screw the tornado talk the yanks into giving us some f-14b\ds it is still the best air superiorty around
    Not according to my buddy in the USN. Most are now tired and well wasted after thousands of aggressive landings. They piss jet fuel all over the decks and he even told me about some of them having parts replaced with unwound coke cans etc.

    They would all need seriously expensive upgrades to make them worth while.

    Also, they require a crew of 2 which doubles the crew costs.

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  • FMolloy
    replied
    No more talk of getting RAF jets please.

    Leave a comment:


  • Aidan
    replied
    What about the Jaguar? They have recently recieved an avionics and airframe upgrade....surely they are in some way useful....
    You're right, they are. They are still a very good strike aircraft, wired for GBUs but relatively simple to maintain. They are all capable of using ASRAAMs in overwing carriage also. Thing is, the Air Corps would need about 3 years and a hell of a lot of money to be in a position to be able to use them.

    They'd be a good place to start, were a clear plan in place, its not, so they're not.

    F14s or F.3s?

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  • coffee
    replied
    screw the tornado
    talk the yanks into giving us some f-14b\ds
    it is still the best air superiorty around

    Leave a comment:


  • Goldie fish
    replied
    What about the Jaguar? They have recently recieved an avionics and airframe upgrade....surely they are in some way useful....

    Goldie gets hauled into the dreaded jet debate

    Leave a comment:


  • Turkey
    replied
    This is getting way outa hand, the F3 Tornado, even though it's crap is far more aircraft then is necessary for this country.
    What is required is a advanced trainer that can double up as a short range interceptor, such as the Mako if the frigging thing ever flies, when everything in terms of culture and back-up is prepared for it. Not some over-engineerd[and now obselete] pile of junk which was forced on the RAF by a bunch of narrow-minded politicans who knew nothing about defence and were totally unwilling to learn!!!

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    raf kit

    we culd lease f.3 s like the italians did. we dont need trainers, we culd piggyback on the brits system, or use the nato centre in canada(singapore use it, and they rnt in nato). when pat kenny had micheal smyth on his show a few months ago, he tore strips of him about this subject,ie, we have no air defencethe brits have had tornados in storage for the last 10 years , we culd have had thewm ages ago. in fact post 9/11 was the perfect oppurtunity to get them, but then how many ministerial flights can a tornado do????

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  • Aidan
    replied
    The Tomcat was trialled by the RAF and found to be the ideal aircraft for what they needed, the Tornado ADV (was F.2 for a while) was chosen on price (it ended up being more expensive) and because of the British built issue. They were going to lease them also, but the RAF (and ex RN) F-4s were extended to cover for a while.

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  • ForkTailedDevil
    replied
    Tomcats were one of the original planes looked at for the requirement when it was issued, but the Tornado was chosen instead.They were rejected on range issues and price.
    And yes, the Blue Circle was the concrete radar. It was just ballast in the nose to counteract the problem of not having a radar in there.I think lead ballast was used aswell.

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  • yooklid
    replied
    Originally posted by Aidan
    They shoulda bought F-14s when they had the chance.
    Huh?

    Leave a comment:


  • Aidan
    replied
    They are very fast at low level, more maneuverable that reports suggest, and have been known to get the better of F15s in mock engagements if properly flown.
    Those engagements were generally performed with the RAFs E-3Ds along for the ride; the RAF AWACS crews have a very good reputation (as in the best), and a lot of the adavntages the F.3 has had stem from this. Its fast on the deck, but its an interceptor rather than a fighter, think MiG-31 rather than 29. They are also a pig to maintain (VG doesn't help that), and datalinks apart, they're actually quite basic (adding AMRAAM capacity would be expensive-lot of software changes to the radar required). The Italians had leased some; they sent them back in favour of another short term lease of F-16s pending Eurofighter delivery, which should tell you a lot.

    The development of the F.3 story is always the perfect response to the English comment that "we should have gone it alone on the Eurofighter" - which comes up every now and then. They shoulda bought F-14s when they had the chance.

    The "Blue Circle" radar is long gone (i don't know if anyone knows about that joke).
    You mean the concrete one?

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  • Farel'
    replied
    Originally posted by andy
    but those tornados (probably the only thing we could use) are pushing on now
    The Tornado F3 ADV only begun entering service in 1990. Others here have suggested former NZ Skyhawks which date from the early 70s,or F5s from the same period...

    Cost,as always is the factor though. However i know that in the past certain air corps pilots have done exchanges with Tornado squadrons(makes you wonder what the RAF got to fly in return)

    Leave a comment:

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