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Why we need Helicopters/ Disaster Imminent(Merged)..

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  • #16
    We are now a first world country. We are a bloody rich country.
    Everyone's comparing Ireland to England, but what we forget is that England has a population of around 60m and we've only got a population of around 4.5 to 5m. This means that England can probably afford to acquire a lot more military equipment.
    Where Ireland might be a wealthy country per head of population the overall budget is still very small in comparison to the U.K.

    Having said all that if we used are money more efficiently we might have a few extra bob to spend on things like the military and the health service and not squander it on making barristers rich in tribunals etc.

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    • #17
      Roger McGee, we know we cant compare our selfs to the UK. I did not do that. I simply used its recent expereances close to our shores of natural disasters as an example of what could very likely happen here and highlighted how vunerable we are here.

      I did however compare ourselfs to New Zealand. They seem to be capable of looking after themselfs. Because they have to.

      We can well afford a new equipment. Nothing like the UK is obvious, but a lot better than what we have.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Aidan
        There are 4 S61s (which bear a distinct family relationship to the Sea Kings pictured above) on call and available in Ireland right now for just this type of work. Whats this 'no helicopters' crap about?
        Thats four helicopters in the entire country. There was 7 helicopters involved in the rescue in cornwall. Hardly sufficient,dont you think?


        Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by ForkTailedDevil
          Whilst the odds are that the RAF or Royal Navy and Fleet Air Arm will come running to your aid you'll probably have to wait a while till the Taiosech decides if its politically ok for flights of Typhoons to start shooting stuff down in Irish airspace or whether its better for the IAC to scramble the PC-9s.
          I doubt that would be a problem. In the months follwing 9/11 RAF Tornados were flying CAP over the east coast armed to the teeth ready to shoot down any aircraft that posed a threat. I`m sure people in Ireland would be very gratful if a Typhoon shot down a hijacked plane which was heading for somewhere like Grafton street where the death toll would be at the least 100`s and probably over a thousand.
          Education isn't everything, for a start it isn't an elephant

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          • #20
            I dunno, I think we could do with about 500 less scumbags and brown thomas shoppers.
            "It is a general popular error to imagine that loudest complainers for the public to be the most anxious for it's welfare" Edmund Burke

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            • #21
              Disaster Imminent is part of the title of this thread - the bit that 4th Northeran Division posted. Do you know something the rest of us don't yet (Met Eireann employee perhaps? ) or are you just being unduly alarmist?

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              • #22
                The end is Nigh!


                Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by JAG
                  I have a theory, which I will someday research, that it would be cheaper or of a similar cost to have helicopters doing air ambulance service as compared to a regular ambulance. I would guess that one air ambulance in the country would easily do the work of four retro fitted transits.

                  I have a similar feeling about helis doing taxi service for troops to camp etc. Anyone know where these things can be costed? Cost of heli, maintenance, fuel, staff etc, life span etc with comparable figures for your ambulances/trucks.
                  Direct Operating Costs for S-70A

                  Direct operating costs are calculated for an S-70A flying 345 hours per year for eight years. Unscheduled removals and overhauls are based on historical fleet-wide data.

                  Fuel and Lubricants $335.39
                  - Average fuel consumption at 162 gallons/hour
                  - Fuel cost per gallon: $2.01
                  - Cost for lubricants at 3% of fuel
                  Labor $245.43
                  - 4.55 Total maintenance MH/FH
                  - Labor rate at $54 per hour
                  Reserve for Retirement Items $152.00
                  Reserve for Overhaul and Unscheduled Repairs $365.00
                  - Airframe and avionics
                  - Engine parts
                  Reserve for Engine Overhaul $188.00
                  Total direct cost per hour $1,285.82

                  See page 14 of the following document.

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                  • #24
                    Seven aircraft on scene in Cornwall,five with winches.The same amount the Irish coast guard have available,not including aircraft with winches from the Aer corp.While all this was going on we were doing favours for the UK by covering their sea board from Preswick to Cornwall.So it runs both ways.As for the landslide in Mayo last year the Coast guard heli out of Dublin was there shortly after the incident,on a very dark ,wet , and windy night,unlike Cornwall.It was later backed up by the Aer corp 61 out of Sligo.

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                    • #25
                      Still though,You cannot say that we have enough!


                      Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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                      • #26
                        You are assuming the RAF will have aircraft available to defend Ireland, as well as their own airspace... recent annouced RAF cuts!

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                        • #27
                          There was nothing alarmist in what I said. How many of these air corp heli's could operate at night if such a disaster struck during these hours? Disaster dose not wait for day break to strike folks.

                          Talk to mountain rescue members in certain parts of the country and they will tell you how frustrating it is to see choppers turn around as the evening turns to night during the middle of a rescue.

                          I mean is anyone seriously saying we have a good or atmost decent air cover rescue fleet on stand by to kick into action effectively at a moments notice?

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                          • #28
                            4th N D,
                            What points are you trying to make.The sailors rescued two weeks ago were not rescued off our coast, they were 200 miles south west of Ireland in waters that come under the responsibility of the UK coast guard.
                            The SEVEN heli's you mention used at Cornwall came from as far away as Southampton and RAF valley in Wales,thats one hour fourty minutes flying time.The aircraft that did most of the winching (RAF, RN) are SAR heli's which are used to pick up downed flight crew and are also availible to civil powers as we saw during the week.In fact the irish coast guard heli out of Waterford was in that area on the same day doing a different job.If this incident had happened at night ther is no way that the seven heli's would have been allowed to work in such proximity to one another. The police heli and coast guerd heli out of Southampton are operated in day light hours only, possibly the air ambulance as well , you are now down to four.
                            As for MRT teams they are professionals and know the game.Yes they might get frustrated from time to time that's the name of the game,but at the end of the day no captain worth his salt is going to risk the lives of the casualty, MRT he might have on board , crew , or aircraft because somebody is stuck on a mountain with a broken toe! these cases are all evaluated on an individual basis.Yes I am saying we have a good service,as good as any other country . All you have to do is look at what we had ten years ago.Now between the coast guard and the Aer corp there are 6 S-61's, 5 with winches,3 Dauphines, 2 with winches all beit shortly to retire, 8 allouettes probably half with winches, and one gazelle. Can it be improved , I am sure it can.The facts of the matter are there are people alive today who might other wise not be because of it.
                            Last edited by Guest; 21 August 2004, 04:55.

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                            • #29
                              Vmax, fair enough, after all that you agree. Our rescue services can be improved on. That was the point I was trying to make.

                              I believe there is no reason why the UK should have to send aircraft regularlly to help in search and rescue operations as far afield as our south and west coasts. We are now in a position where we can afford to invest in our own equipment. This is my point Vmax, plain and simple!

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                              • #30
                                4 th ND
                                No matter how good a rescue service is there is always room for improvment.You asked the question about a good or at most decent air cover fleet,i gave you an answer.Would you like to elaborate on part of your last paragraph in relation to the uk regularly having to send aircraft over here to carry out rescue taskings of the south and west coasts,if this is the case can you back this up with some facts.I am not looking for times, dates , and places just something more definitive than regularly.Look forward to been enlightened.
                                Last edited by Guest; 23 August 2004, 04:45.

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