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Why we need Helicopters/ Disaster Imminent(Merged)..

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  • #61
    the RAF issued a statement saying they rescued 80 people the day before yesterday from the UK flooding. this was the largest civvy operation they have mounted (open to correction on this).

    bearing in mind just one of the UK fire services made over 200 rescues of people. and not taking into account the total number of people rescued by different fire and rescue services it probably runs into the thousands at the moment.

    so the numbers rescued by heli are a small proportion, even with well established and funded levels of heli service. here in ireland we don't have the same levels of establishment (granted there have been improvements over the past years) so it still stands that proper funding and equipping of the emergency services would be money better spent and more effective in flooding situations as seen in the UK.
    An army is power. Its entire purpose is to coerce others. This power can not be used carelessly or recklessly. This power can do great harm. We have seen more suffering than any man should ever see, and if there is going to be an end to it, it must be an end that justifies the cost. Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain

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    • #62
      X-RayOne,
      While I agree that there needs to be investment in the emergency services I think it is a bit too soon to say that just because in the UK the fire service rescued 200 to the RAF's 80 that we should concentrate on funding emergency services alone. In all probability, the rescues involving helicopters were in areas inaccessable to the fire service. The question must be asked, how many of the eighty rescued would not have been so lucky had a similiar situation arisen here.Yes the fire service need investment both in the form of equipment and training for such a scenario. In terms of the overall picture the type of investment needed is not massive and should be undertaken in any case, without having to single out a particular area to focus spending. €20m would go a long way. Focusing on that alone is very near sighted and would be just another token gesture.There needs to be a balanced approach. Let's face it,the back up the Air Corps could provide to the Coast Guard SAR heli's would be little more than token. All we have confirmed so far is that there are 3 winch equipped heli's available, although the others would be able to provide resupply either underslung or internally loaded. There is a warning here that must be heeded. Only a few hundred miles away, one of Europes largest Air Forces had to mount it's biggest post war internal operation to cope with a natural disaster. Politicians take note. Could we cope? Short answer is no.

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      • #63
        here's what the ozzies do http://www.rescuehelicopter.com.au/wrhs/index.asp

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        • #64
          there's now seven s-61's in service with the coastguard,plenty of winches too

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          • #65
            Latest update on the CHC website is 6 helicopters are deployed to cover 4 bases.

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            • #66
              good points jetjock.

              basically what i am trying to get across is even with heavy investment in more rescue capable helis, if there was a similar disaster here in ireland, the proportion of rescues conducted by these helis would be quite low when the total number of people needing rescue is taken into account.

              i said one fire service rescued about 200 people. bear in mind at this stage there a probably half a dozen fire services involved in rescues in the UK. if all are rescuing similar number the totals for people rescued or evacuated is in the thousands.

              as you said, a balanced approach to funding all services needs to be taken. however, more helis are not a simple solution to such incidents.
              An army is power. Its entire purpose is to coerce others. This power can not be used carelessly or recklessly. This power can do great harm. We have seen more suffering than any man should ever see, and if there is going to be an end to it, it must be an end that justifies the cost. Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain

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              • #67
                Also (I know there are only 6000 in it but still) the UK has no local Civil Defence strucutre and they have a higher percentage (of their larger) military deployed overseas/

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                • #68
                  So lets qualify the need for more helos for the AC by quoting global warming.

                  I think for a country oursize having 6 very capable machines dedicated to Coast Guard work is a massive achievement in 8 years. Also given the back up the AC could provide if called upon were are now in a better position than we ever were. Couple that with the naval service we have moved on in quantum leaps in comparrison to the UK who now has about 25 ships deployable over a range of theatres with only two on maritime patrol...one in the falklands constantly...we are not doing that badly.

                  Yeah they have a much more powerful fleet but whats the use if it takes 10 times as much money to keep one frigate deloyed as opposed to an FPV...pound for pound I'd say we are doing quite well for the amount of money being spent.
                  Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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                  • #69
                    Nice to note that the Belgians, Germans, Swedes and Oman have all opted for increased NH90 numbers...from the August issue of Combat Aircraft...

                    Funnily enoughthere have been no sales of the AB139 mentioned in the last few months...is there some thing we don't know?
                    Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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                    • #70
                      Mmmm well this is a bit of an ignorant post but i'll go along with it anyways.

                      I went for a two week work experience in baldonnel about 3-4 years back.

                      The experience i had there was to decide whether i was going to go for the air corps as a possible career in the future.

                      After two weeks i was completly disgusted as to the status of our "Air Corps".

                      There were about two dauphins actually ready and capable with about 4 more under repairs constantly.

                      Everything else was being retrofitted or scavanged for parts for others.

                      It was disgusting.

                      In light of this though i was completly amazed how well the lads there did with what they were given. The task at hand compared to the number of men and resources they had available, i was so amazed how well they got by none the less. Damn good lads down there.

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Komsomol View Post

                        Everything else was being retrofitted or scavanged for parts for others.
                        Everybody does this. Friend of mine told me a horror story of coke cans being unwound and used to patch holes on F-14s.
                        Meh.

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by carrington View Post
                          As I mentioned earlier, lessons were learned about the organisation of helicopter assets from various state, commercial and private sources during Hurricane Katrina. The US experience and the implications for UK public policy were discussed at the recent Royal Aeronautical Society conference, as a result of which the RAeS is preparing a paper on the matter for the Cabinet Office.
                          Now that would be an interesting one to read.

                          having 6 very capable machines
                          A relative term. Most countries are now replacing their Sea Kings/Variants. Yes, S61 is a lot more capable than the old stuff, but they are a little past their prime compared to what's out there now.

                          NTM
                          Driver, tracks, troops.... Drive and adjust!!

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by yooklid View Post
                            Everybody does this. Friend of mine told me a horror story of coke cans being unwound and used to patch holes on F-14s.
                            I guess if it works, it works.

                            Still pretty damn creepy to hear something like that.

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                            • #74
                              Hi there
                              If you think a coke can would stand up to the rigours of carrier-borne flight, then you should slap your friend.I think the USN could find some proper alloy, after a brief search of the stores.Ad-hoc repairs are all very well but not when the right gear is at hand.
                              regards
                              GttC

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                              • #75
                                "having 6 very capable machines "

                                In this case its within the remit of a private company CHC...and not at the taxpayers cost with all the bullshit that goes with State Procurements.
                                Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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